A significant one in this modern world where people can't just simply laugh a minor incident off. 
I wont bother to explain, your ignorance is on an un-attainable level.
he made a sweeping highly negative generalisation based on race while accusing someone else of racism
surely even you can see the irony here?
1. any argument based on godwin is automatically based on thin air
2. probably not mostly because halloween isnt a german holiday but would i be offended if its just the costume and not the begging for free sweets? probably now
3. if i had a nazi officer as my father (or rather grandfather considering both my parents were born shortly after the war and when it was already pretty much over) who did enough to be hung for war crimes im quite certain it would be something id be ashamed about whereas being black -last time i checked- isnt
so congratulations on making another well thought out apples and oranges comparison
by the by theres a popular stupid joke in germany
my father died in a kz... he fell off a watchtower
so lets see... because were white (most of us anyway) were generally unable to understand?
Obviously not, you wern't brought up in a black culture so don't understand the impact of certain images, words etc and the context in which they are used.
It wasn't, how i believe ur making it out to be, me saying white people just don't understand cus your mind is incapable.
It wasn't, how i believe ur making it out to be, me saying white people just don't understand cus your mind is incapable.
You just have explained exactly why the black face was not a racist act. That idiot don't understand the impact of certain images (sic). It's like a child pointing at a wheelchair or a retard (hope that word doesn't sound despective in english, it's not what I want to mean) and asking his parents. He don't know some people can feel offended
In Spain nobody will take a black face as a racist act. I recall a Madrid - Barcelona football match where some neonazi group started calling Eto'o monkey and making monkey sounds. That is a racist act
My limited experience suggests that it's not at all easy to make a car much lighter than the weight limit - carbon tubs aren't much lighter than a steel spaceframe one, and then you've got miles of wiring, engines, gearboxes, sensors, brackets, tanks, electronic boxes, radiators, bodywork... I'd be VERY surprised if the lightest car with the lightest driver has more than 20kg of ballast in it, whilst a heavy car with a tall driver and KERS might not have room for any.
Have a cookie.
Why do you think Ferrari made a special chassis for Raikkonen, and why Kubica had to wait to use KERS? Not because they couldn't use as much ballast as they wanted, but because they probably couldn't use ANY.
I would not be surprised if some of the KERS cars were pushing the weight limit before ballast, and slightly over when it gets added (because it does have to be).
Me likes cookies! :cookiemon
I've been pondering what the downside to the lighter chassis is - less rigid? Less safety margins on the crash testing? More exposed parts in the cockpit? There has to be some downside of a lighter chassis, otherwise they'd have made it that light to start with...
I've been pondering what the downside to the lighter chassis is - less rigid? Less safety margins on the crash testing? More exposed parts in the cockpit? There has to be some downside of a lighter chassis, otherwise they'd have made it that light to start with...
congrats on dragging this back on topic 
i saw somewhere the difference for someone like kubica is that with kers he has less than 10 kilo of ballast to play with which gives a lot less scope for tuning weight distribution compared to the non kers cars which can have up to 50 kilos to play with. or to give an example of how kers puts the preassure on drives weight, anthony davidson plus a mercedes kers system weighs the same as rubens barrichello without kers.
the other problem of course with kers is that the weight is in one or a few fairly fixed shape pieces rather than being able to shape it into as many pieces and different shapes as you require. some teams have mounted it below the fuel tank which reduces capacity or raises wieght distribution, BMW have split it to fit each side of the fuel tank in the side pods but are encountering packaging compramises and have suffered from the effect of its raised position.
when the power produced is raised over the next few seasons it will become pretty well impossible not to use it and be competative which means they will have to establish a weight limit that doesn't penalise drives excessively for being larger than others though of course it's only relatively recently that the weight limit has included the driver, prost certainly always used to point out to team owners that he bought a substantial weight saving compared to drivers like mansel, at times as much as 30 kilos !
it must be said that one area of this regs that have worked perfectly is the kers power limit, it has been set at a level that overall there is very little advantage in using it which allows teams not too whilst at the same time encourages some teams to use it and gain experience with it before the power is increased. it will be interesting if the teams that are using it can put that experience to use when the power level increases (providing they are still in F1 )
i saw somewhere the difference for someone like kubica is that with kers he has less than 10 kilo of ballast to play with which gives a lot less scope for tuning weight distribution compared to the non kers cars which can have up to 50 kilos to play with. or to give an example of how kers puts the preassure on drives weight, anthony davidson plus a mercedes kers system weighs the same as rubens barrichello without kers.
the other problem of course with kers is that the weight is in one or a few fairly fixed shape pieces rather than being able to shape it into as many pieces and different shapes as you require. some teams have mounted it below the fuel tank which reduces capacity or raises wieght distribution, BMW have split it to fit each side of the fuel tank in the side pods but are encountering packaging compramises and have suffered from the effect of its raised position.
when the power produced is raised over the next few seasons it will become pretty well impossible not to use it and be competative which means they will have to establish a weight limit that doesn't penalise drives excessively for being larger than others though of course it's only relatively recently that the weight limit has included the driver, prost certainly always used to point out to team owners that he bought a substantial weight saving compared to drivers like mansel, at times as much as 30 kilos !
it must be said that one area of this regs that have worked perfectly is the kers power limit, it has been set at a level that overall there is very little advantage in using it which allows teams not too whilst at the same time encourages some teams to use it and gain experience with it before the power is increased. it will be interesting if the teams that are using it can put that experience to use when the power level increases (providing they are still in F1 )
On and off-topic - I have just my favourite driver Mr. Trulli has broken 2 records in two races! First, in Bahrain he broke the record for most races before a fastest lap and in Barcelona has taken the record for most 1st lap retirements! 
It's probably the crash testing part. Teams will quite often fail their initial crash tests at the beginning of the year, then have to bulk up the cars to pass them quickly. Maybe they've taken the time to go back to their original design intent, but still retain the strength.
Or maybe they've been crash testing light chassis since the beginning of the season, and the wind blew in the right direction one day resulting in a pass.
This could be solved by introducing a minimum weight in the cockpit, of say 80 Kg, and drivers under 80 Kg must have ballast added inside the cockpit or around the back of the seat for example.
In this book there's a picture of a bare Renault R24 (2004) tub. Written on the side is "R24/1 31.68kg (No tooling)". In this book, Matchett says the first carbon monocoque in F1 (McLaren's MP4-1) weighed 36kg. He also says a typical new chassis weighs in at approx 50kg (book was written in 2004). He goes on to say that a finished car (from 2004) will weigh roughly 450kg without the driver or fuel. Add an average driver weight (75kg) and you're left with approx 80kg of ballast to play with. Ok, so these numbers are from 2004 so they're not going to be totally accurate to 2009 standards (given the increased crash test requirements), but also remember that the above is with a 5 year old V10 engine, not the newer V8s.
You forgot to account for fuel, amp88. Then there is the 30-40kg of KERS.
Indeed, it looks like a largish driver with KERS won't be able to use any appreciable amount of ballast.
Indeed, it looks like a largish driver with KERS won't be able to use any appreciable amount of ballast.
Fuel can't be used as ballast to make the car up to 605kg. BAR learned this the hard way a few years ago when they got stripped of a result and banned from a number of races.
cars of 09 would be considerably lighter then the 04 mark expecially which smaller lighter engines, and probably lighter chassis.
the Red bulls and the Brawns im guessing will have huge ballast to play with.
the Red bulls and the Brawns im guessing will have huge ballast to play with.
and all the aero thats gone
I thought this was true (it's in a post of mine above), but it turns out it's not. BMW's P83 (a V10 from 2003) weighed "less than 90kg". The 2009 regulations state that an engine "must be a minimum of 95kg", so the V8s aren't actually lighter than the old V10s were. No doubt they could be engineered to be lighter than the old V10s, but at the moment they're not.
hmm intresting, but i would think they would lose weight in other areas.
I read it something most teams have about 60kg of ballast to play with.
Rules regarding materials will have also changed since 04, as well as (like others have said) increased safety requirements. I've seen a few people carrying chassis as a two-person lift, but that may just be the awkward shape.
I'm not saying that many cars are overweight, but I wouldn't be surprised if some teams with KERS are pushing it.
It's mainly that you should never assume from the rules, and you should definitely never believe what a team says re: anything technical
I'm not saying that many cars are overweight, but I wouldn't be surprised if some teams with KERS are pushing it.
It's mainly that you should never assume from the rules, and you should definitely never believe what a team says re: anything technical
Not true. There are only a handful of "races" on the planet and hundreds of different cultures. It's the mistake that people make of correlating the two that causes all the issues on the whole. In general most "racists" aren't making generalisations about the races but the cultures, or even the religion.
IMO, the term "racist" has been dumbed down by politicians and pressure groups for the benefit of their own agendas. What the vast majority of opinions or behaviours currently being labled as "racist" actually are is prejudice. To be racist is to be prejudiced, but to be prejudiced is not by definition to be racist, (and being offensive to a person of another race doesn't define one as being racist either). To be racist you have to believe in the inherent inferiority/superiority of one race over another and to take actual action to discriminate against such persons as you define as being of another race. The appartied system in South Africa was the very definition of racism. That is the true meaning of racism and to water it down with the wishy washy definitions of implication and "smell" of prejudice is to diminish the horror that true racism is.
Don't bring this shit back, i didn't even see the accident whats so speical about it.
[QUOTE=col;1156433#That fan chose skin colour as an attribute of Hamilton that was to him, worthy of ridicule.[/quote]
No, actually that's your interpretation of which part of his display was the ridiculing part.
An equally valid interpretation of his actions is that he was ridiculing Hamiltons inability to press the correct button on his steering wheel, (as that is clearly what his gesturing seemed to be indicating), and that he "blacked up" purely to make it clear which of the two McLaren drivers he was talking about. IME Spanish people on the whole don't have the immediately negative interpretation of making the distinction between a person being black or white. To a large extent, culturally they see no problem with making the distinction, feeling on the whole that purely making the distinction is and of itself is not racist or prejudiced.
Without actually knowing what was going through that guys head at the time or prior to his actions there is absolutely no way for us to know for sure whether his behaviour was racist. His actions are only open to our own personal interpretations which themselves are informed by our own prejudices.
No, actually that's your interpretation of which part of his display was the ridiculing part.
An equally valid interpretation of his actions is that he was ridiculing Hamiltons inability to press the correct button on his steering wheel, (as that is clearly what his gesturing seemed to be indicating), and that he "blacked up" purely to make it clear which of the two McLaren drivers he was talking about. IME Spanish people on the whole don't have the immediately negative interpretation of making the distinction between a person being black or white. To a large extent, culturally they see no problem with making the distinction, feeling on the whole that purely making the distinction is and of itself is not racist or prejudiced.
Without actually knowing what was going through that guys head at the time or prior to his actions there is absolutely no way for us to know for sure whether his behaviour was racist. His actions are only open to our own personal interpretations which themselves are informed by our own prejudices.
Well put it this way, if he was going to make fun of him he would have to be painted black in order for people to realise who he is talking about.
Allthough i can see how some people say its racist, in a way but really its not.
Allthough i can see how some people say its racist, in a way but really its not.
Formula 1 Gran Premio de España Telefonica 2009
(326 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG