Quote from keiran :

I really can't understand why these people buy LFS

As far as I'm aware with LFS all you are buying is the content. Demo users get the latest physics and features for free but licensed users get more tracks and cars.

Simbin made GTL, so lets take GTR for example. GTR was appauling online and hotlapping wasn't much better, so what did they do about it ?? Well nothing they decided they'd make "GTR 2" so all them people who paid £30 for GTR which doesn't do everything it's supposed to do, now have to pay another £30 for GTR 2 illepall = £60

Bringing mods into the discussion is pointless, LFS isn't open to the modding community and so far the likes of rF hasnt exactly got a lot of high quality mods... nor does it have near the amount of online users LFS has.

LFS is a constantly growing project, hell Scawen has been releasing small patches since the main patch was out - http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=7287

Maybe you shouldn't have bought LFS and waited a few years down the line for S3 final as I for one I'm glad to be part of this project. 3 or 4 years of the devs work for £24 is a bargain in my opinion, heck people would charge a heck of a lot more than that for the 3D models of the tracks and cars. After playing LFS I've not been able to play any other game and at this rate probaly never will. No more mass market "sims" full of aids to let 3 year olds think they are good drivers for me, thank you very much

Keiran

i agree with everything Keiran said there, i was a Simbin/GTR victim, and it was actually Keiran that told me about this game (back in the Black Hawk Down days ), i got it last year, and i've not bought another racing game since! (well GTL, but it was pants compared to this). also.. LFS has THE BEST online community of all, the devs help out people, and from what i've heard they are top blokes aswell!

Quote from deggis :

Dethred, at least now you don't have any credibility anymore.

You capture the essence of my post. I have played the game religiously much longer than you have (or at least the full versions), yet you accuse me of not having any credibility because I mock all those who blindly defend the product.illepall Way to go man! I bet you're one of the 95% who upheld the illusion S1's physics were perfect.

Its hard being so darn right.

Quote from keiran :

I really can't understand why these people buy LFS

As far as I'm aware with LFS all you are buying is the content. Demo users get the latest physics and features for free but licensed users get more tracks and cars.

Simbin made GTL, so lets take GTR for example. GTR was appauling online and hotlapping wasn't much better, so what did they do about it ?? Well nothing they decided they'd make "GTR 2" so all them people who paid £30 for GTR which doesn't do everything it's supposed to do, now have to pay another £30 for GTR 2 illepall = £60

Bringing mods into the discussion is pointless, LFS isn't open to the modding community and so far the likes of rF hasnt exactly got a lot of high quality mods... nor does it have near the amount of online users LFS has.

LFS is a constantly growing project, hell Scawen has been releasing small patches since the main patch was out - http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=7287

Maybe you shouldn't have bought LFS and waited a few years down the line for S3 final as I for one I'm glad to be part of this project. 3 or 4 years of the devs work for £24 is a bargain in my opinion, heck people would charge a heck of a lot more than that for the 3D models of the tracks and cars. After playing LFS I've not been able to play any other game and at this rate probaly never will. No more mass market "sims" full of aids to let 3 year olds think they are good drivers for me, thank you very much

Keiran

People buy the sim not knowing (because there is no info on the website) that the AI doesn't function properly, the physics engine is still flawed (although slowly getting better), etc.

Now you can say that is inherent in an Alpha release, but people expect a functioning product, for instance, working AI (even if they are incredibly stupid they could still pit for christ's sakes), and a real approximation of the amount of users online. The website its self is misleading as it groups the demo racers, S1, and S2 racers into the tally right above the current release. So when the site says there are 900 racers online the consumer says "wow, thats a lot, I think I might get this S2", only to find there are barely 300 in the most complete version of the game, most of which are drift servers or other instances where a decent race is difficult to find. The only fault of the devs in that is the misleading approach to showing how many people are online. If you're going to say there are ___ people online, indicate that its not just those with the current version displayed directly below it.

But I suppose that is too difficult a concept to understand for some of you.

What they said ^^^ except Dethred. This was an adult discussion up to his first post.

I can't really add much to the conversation though, the responses here have been mostly well thought-out and to the point. I would however like to thank you, Tony01, for not starting yet another "omfg this sucks!!11" thread and just spitting the dummy, and instead actually being intelligent and composed in your posts...even though I pretty much disagree with you on everything (except the AI, but we all know they're useless and have dealt with it), but hey, that's forum life.

Give LFS a chance. You've bought the license, so get out there, get to know the game a bit more and get your money's worth.

Quote from rafo_cardenas :

Dont like it, dont play it

Drink a healthy dose of Hemlock, please. Who ever said they didn't like it? I think it is a great sim. But I suppose since I like the game I should not criticize it? Your reasoning is either beyond me or below me. I'll assume its the latter.

You guys forgot to mention this:

Quote from LFS.net :

At the start of every year, AutoSimSport and Blackhole Motorsports ask the sim racing community to vote for their favorite (aspects of) sims and results are coming in.

We are proud to have been rewarded with so many awards this year:

-The AutoSimSport "Best simulation" award,
-The AutoSimSport "Sim racing personality of the year" went to Victor van Vlaardingen.
BHM Awards
The BH Motorsports awards are now over as well and we have been blessed with the following 3 awards :

-The BHM "Game of the year" award,
-The BHM "Best multiplayer" award,
-The BHM "Best physics" award.

Thank you all for your confidence and enthusiasm!

Just another thing, that was before the new patch with upgraded physics

Quote from Hankstar :

What they said ^^^ except Dethred. This was an adult discussion up to that point

Quite Wrong. Adults usually obtain a higher level of reasoning than that of high schoolers.

For instance:
1.) Assuming criticism is a dislike for the game despite years of participation and an S2 license = high school reasoning.
2.) Blind support for issues that even the devs admit need to be addressed = High school reasoning.

Try and keep your assertions to yourself, you're obviously lost in the high school level of reasoning. Making negative judgements about other people's valid criticisms of something they want to see improved through contructive input is childish.

PS: This really adds up to your comments being completely false, in an entirely Ironic way.

Quote from Dethred :

You capture the essence of my post. I have played the game religiously much longer than you have (or at least the full versions), yet you accuse me of not having any credibility because I mock all those who blindly defend the product.illepall Way to go man!

I referred to your "Physics still FUBAR" thread which included unnecessary provocation. "Constructive mocking" and trolling has a tiny difference...

Quote :

I bet you're one of the 95% who upheld the illusion S1's physics were perfect.

Nope.

Quote from Dethred :

Your reasoning is either beyond me or below me. I'll assume its the latter.

Good

There might have people here that blindely suports LFS, but most of the users knows its flaws. The problem is that 99% of the times that people come bashing LFS or simply making critics its purly based on I Think rather them facts, or a simply comparison to real world physics and how cars behave in real life. Yeah the AI is very stupid and we all know that, also Alpha means incomplite, so not all features are here, so you clearly shouldnt expect to see flawless physics, perfect AI, and other stuff. But as a alpha stage we have a very very stable game. Wich other alpha game that you know that has gained awards of best physics, multiplayer, and game of the year? All givem by a respected website and magazine, as stated in my post a few posts up.


Edit: in lfs world, and in te forum when the graphics that shows how may users online its slipted in 2 parts demo racers and licensed racers, and you say 300 licenses online at once, we had 900 the other day

Quote from Dethred :

People buy the sim not knowing (because there is no info on the website) that the AI doesn't function properly, the physics engine is still flawed (although slowly getting better), etc.

Now you can say that is inherent in an Alpha release, but people expect a functioning product, for instance, working AI (even if they are incredibly stupid they could still pit for christ's sakes), and a real approximation of the amount of users online. The website its self is misleading as it groups the demo racers, S1, and S2 racers into the tally right above the current release. So when the site says there are 900 racers online the consumer says "wow, thats a lot, I think I might get this S2", only to find there are barely 300 in the most complete version of the game, most of which are drift servers or other instances where a decent race is difficult to find. The only fault of the devs in that is the misleading approach to showing how many people are online. If you're going to say there are ___ people online, indicate that its not just those with the current version displayed directly below it.

But I suppose that is too difficult a concept to understand for some of you.

Wow, so LFS.net doesn't contain the game illepall

Any customer can download the game and play it in demo mode. If they can't work out from there that the AI aint great then whats this world coming to ... The physics have there flaws but what game advertises there flaws ?? God all the simbin/ISI titles have flaws but they don't stick "NET PLAY DOESN't WORK" in the case of GTR. Thinking about it now, LFS.net doesn't appear to advertise AI as being part of the game...

I couldn't care what the racers online thing says because at the end of the day in this world every statistic is trying to make things sound better. Look up your car manual and the MPG given there is something you'll probaly never achieve, I know I'm not and I've driven the thing as efficently as possible. I know that this is because I get stuck in traffic etc, but what I'm saying is everyone advertises the best possible statistic they can.

You can't find a server for good races ?? I find plenty, and I don't drift. Your exagerating things a bit too much, one must assume

Keiran

Dethred,

Although I understand what you are trying to get at unfortunatly you have gone about it in an arrogant and uneducated manner. Okay maybe uneducated is a little harsh but by ridiculing those who love the game or as you put it "fanboys", you are in essence degrading the heart of the game of which I don't think you are intending to do.

However I will ignore this for my response and try to respond to you in an adult manner without jumping to swayed conclusions.

Yes maybe the website in its entirity doesn't give the consumer enough information about the state of the games development and offline play. Regarding the offline issues, the title of the game for me says it all. It's an online simulator and therefore should be judged on its online characteristics which are second to none.

Also if you where setting up a business and you had not fully completed a product but still wanted to reward your efforts with some payback, would you advertise that it was unfinished and risk losing customers and profit? I think the answer would be no and therefore you are unqualified to make a criticism on that point.

And finally seeing as everyone else has made a point on how they feel about the game and the own personal stance, I play LFS no other game will interest me until I hear from estabilshed respected simracers that another product is better! The hype over GTR, which online it turned out to be poor, the hype over rFactor, turned out poor and then the hype of netkar, which turned out poor.

Couple this with how this game is evolving and reacting to its competitiors shown in the latest F1 car release, it continually shows me that my investment in this game so far has been worth it, and long may it continue.

Quote :

You can't find a server for good races ?? I find plenty, and I don't drift. Your exagerating things a bit too much, one must assume

That's because he's in the US, and he's right about that part at least.

Too bad you can't vote to kick someone out of a thread...

I for one like the installation from a zip, it's incredibly clean, I know exactly where all the files are. I wish more software did this.

Quote from Tony01Ball01 :

unfortunatley it's not enough these days, not for 30'odd pound.

You must be kidding.

I'm sure he is, or a kid (the spoilt type)

Quote from Dethred :

Quite Wrong. Adults usually obtain a higher level of reasoning than that of high schoolers.

For instance:
1.) Assuming criticism is a dislike for the game despite years of participation and an S2 license = high school reasoning.
2.) Blind support for issues that even the devs admit need to be addressed = High school reasoning.

Try and keep your assertions to yourself, you're obviously lost in the high school level of reasoning. Making negative judgements about other people's valid criticisms of something they want to see improved through contructive input is childish.

Assuming someone's a highschooler and of a lesser intellectual level then you because they disagree with your constant insulting of so-called "fanboys", and object to the childish grade-school sarcasm displayed in your first post = the height of arrogance. Exhibit A:

Quote from Dethred :

...Therefore, long live LFS, stfu noob, and you're wrong for having an opinion.

Sincerely,
Aspiring LFS forum whore.


PS: I think I have finally mastered the art of licking dev nutsack (no offense to Scawen, Eric, or Victor, you guys seem cool). Now I am one of the regulars on here!...

"Forum whore", "licking dev nutsack" ... stooping to grade-school level insults of an entire community is clearly the product of a highly educated mind, as is the enormous chip on your shoulder which spawned them.

Blind support for your assertion that majority of LFS players are in denial about LFS's problems and that you're the only one who has noticed them or brought them to our attention = the height of arrogance. Go and see if the Whitehouse is hiring. They have a new war to plan.

I'll have a stab and say that most of us know about LFS's problems without needing you to inform us. I'll also say that we like to play this sim despite its problems because we know they're being worked on and bitching about them solves nothing. Your presence on this forum seems either to be inflammatory or utterly pointless. Try and keep your assertions about me to yourself as you're obviously lost in the fog of your own arrogance.

Now I remember why I don't like online gaming forums. They have a way of sucking all the enjoyment out of a game.

Just sit back and laugh, works for me. You *definately* get your money's worth with this game, I am not a fan-boy by any means but I generally spend a good few hours a week racing online in LFS, no other game has EVER lasted that long for me and continues to challenge me.

£24 too much for LFS?...I've spent more than that in an hour during a lager frenzy.

Totally agree with the earlier comments as well about most "full" releases being far less finished than LFS is in it's current state..

I've played many a SO CALLED finished Racing game ready for the shelves!
Ive got hundreds more I dont even look at any more. NC2002,03,Heat,05 or whatever it was (see my intrest), GTR, the NFS series, Shall I go on?

I stumbled across LFS a few years ago S1, played off and on and then joined a Team. Now I play a few nights a week, I have less than 10k in miles.

With LFS still in alpha I would have to say its the best unfinished game I have ever spent my money on!


Tick

Hey Dethred, want to stir up the old discussion of how the devs make false advertisement with the "players online" count again? Or does anyone in here maybe want to discuss the incredibly-flawed-and-bound-to-fail LFS business model instead? Oh the memories.

()

Quote from Dethred :

Quite Wrong. Adults usually obtain a higher level of reasoning than that of high schoolers.
<snip>

I'll bite...

Sure seems to me like you don't consider it childish to tell people to go kill themselves on at least a couple occaisons. Oddly enough your method of choice is poison.

Quote from Dethred :

Now please drink some bleach if you're going to tell me to just play Netkar.

Quote from Dethred :

Drink a healthy dose of Hemlock, please.

I'm sure that proves you're the perfect example of a mature adult. illepall

Nothing wrong with posting your opinions (as repetative as they may be), but telling people to go kill themselves because their opinion differs from your own is just plain rude.

I can't take this thread seriously because...

Quote from Tick :

With LFS still in alpha I would have to say its the best unfinished game I have ever spent my money on!

...I totally agree with this.