Quote from S14 DRIFT :

If you were driving in a matter than facilitated consistent high rev use I doubt you would have the time to keep looking at your rev counter.

You have to constantly have an eye on your rev counter, if you don't you're either going to damage the engine or not go anywhere in a hurry. When you're truly driving fast and near your limit and having to concentrate on other things, you do not have time to listen to the engine revs, there are far more important things to do, like listening to your tyres and for any mechanically worrying noises.

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So you are indeed a chav?

What possible logic are you using to come to that conclusion? I don't see how using a vehicle for a use it wasn't intended for is chavvish behaviour, presumably production based competition cars, ambulances and hearses all qualify as being chavvy in your book then?

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

If you were driving on a track, or on a road rally, or just driving about like your hair is on fire I find that it's best to look where you're going, instead of glancing at your rev counter every 15 seconds.

Clearly you have never been on a track then...

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

I agree shifting within a small RPM frame is useful, but I'm sure F1 drivers can tell when to change up by the sound of the engines..

I highly doubt they can hear much of the engine at all, as is typically the case in mid engined race cars, the chance of being able to judge the revs of a very fast revving engine like that even to the nearest 1000rpm whilst being thrown about at 4G with a whole manner of other noise is very low.

About the only form of competition car that don't need a rev counter are those that only use one gear, in other words some oval specials and karts, a lot of them still have a rev counter though because the result of getting gearing wrong either means throwing away a lot of time or money.

Quote from ajp71 :

You have to constantly have an eye on your rev counter, if you don't you're either going to damage the engine or not go anywhere in a hurry. When you're truly driving fast and near your limit and having to concentrate on other things, you do not have time to listen to the engine revs, there are far more important things to do, like listening to your tyres and for any mechanically worrying noises.

Other things such as indeed where you're going and if indeed there are other cars around you and braking points etc.

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What possible logic are you using to come to that conclusion? I don't see how using a vehicle for a use it wasn't intended for is chavvish behaviour, presumably production based competition cars, ambulances and hearses all qualify as being chavvy in your book then?

Because you have RIMZ and bolt on rev counters. Everything, infact, you've riddled everyone else for doing. You even want to paint steel rims, now that IS rice.

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Clearly you have never been on a track then...

Don't have to be on a track to ride/drive fast. I'd treat a trackday like a fast road ride in terms of speed and aggression unless I had a specific trackbike so it didn't matter if I binned it.

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I highly doubt they can hear much of the engine at all, as is typically the case in mid engined race cars, the chance of being able to judge the revs of a very fast revving engine like that even to the nearest 1000rpm whilst being thrown about at 4G with a whole manner of other noise is very low.

Indeed they may have team radios and the like that restrict their hearing but they sure as heck don't look at their rev counters, as you said they have shift lights or just know instinctively when to shift up..As you say, 4g in a corner means you can't exactly take your eyes off the road.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Other things such as indeed where you're going and if indeed there are other cars around you and braking points etc.

There are many things you have to do when driving fast, watching your revs is just one of them, you should be able to watch your rev counter and do everything else at the same time, if you can't multitask then you're not going to be safe in a mentally and physically demanding environment such as a racetrack.

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Because you have RIMZ and bolt on rev counters. Everything, infact, you've riddled everyone else for doing. You even want to paint steel rims, now that IS rice.

When have I ever riddled anyone for installing useful instruments or wheels and tyres, for purposes other than looking good. Granted getting bigger steel wheels when I've already got a set of alloys, to maintain the standard look of the car is modifying/spending money on it for looks, rather than performance and if we're considering rice as being changing things just on looks, which maybe isn't the right definition of the word then yes it is.

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Don't have to be on a track to ride/drive fast. I'd treat a trackday like a fast road ride in terms of speed and aggression unless I had a specific trackbike so it didn't matter if I binned it.

Going quickly on the road and going fast are two totally different things, to drive/ride fast you have to be mentally getting your machine to cover distance as fast as you possibly can, not ambling along. If you're not revving it at least slightly over the peak power point and getting the tyres sliding slightly then you're not driving/riding fast, until you're doning that you won't be going round a track at a safe pace and won't get anything out of being on a track anyway.

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Indeed they may have team radios and the like that restrict their hearing but they sure as heck don't look at their rev counters, as you said they have shift lights or just know instinctively when to shift up..As you say, 4g in a corner means you can't exactly take your eyes off the road.

Hence why they stick their shift lights right in the drivers line of site and make them really bright so that they see them without having to try.

Quote from ajp71 :

There are many things you have to do when driving fast, watching your revs is just one of them, you should be able to watch your rev counter and do everything else at the same time, if you can't multitask then you're not going to be safe in a mentally and physically demanding environment such as a racetrack.

Men cannot multitask, this is a fact. Look where you're going.

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When have I ever riddled anyone for installing useful instruments or wheels and tyres, for purposes other than looking good. Granted getting bigger steel wheels when I've already got a set of alloys, to maintain the standard look of the car is modifying/spending money on it for looks, rather than performance and if we're considering rice as being changing things just on looks, which maybe isn't the right definition of the word then yes it is.

In almost every single "post your car" post, every picture of a modified car, namely Civics, etc.

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Going quickly on the road and going fast are two totally different things, to drive/ride fast you have to be mentally getting your machine to cover distance as fast as you possibly can, not ambling along. If you're not revving it at least slightly over the peak power point and getting the tyres sliding slightly then you're not driving/riding fast, until you're doning that you won't be going round a track at a safe pace and won't get anything out of being on a track anyway.

The faster the crank spins the more planted it feels, I normally keep it above 8000 when taking the corners.. redlines 11.5k.

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Hence why they stick their shift lights right in the drivers line of site and make them really bright so that they see them without having to try.

I'm sure they'd manage without them

bye I'm going out.

Try driving a race car mate before making such silly statements.

Shift lights are a form of rev counter - they do the same thing, just a bit brigher. In many cases, yes, it means you don't have to take your eyes off the road. But not always. A driver's eyes aren't glued to the road as you suggest, as there are instruments to monitor (other than the rev counter), mirrors to look in, other cars to keep an eye on. And it's not unknown or particularly rare to have to look at things other than the track in high-g turns either.

Sorry, to double post, but the amount of moron in this post deserves it...

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Men cannot multitask, this is a fact. Look where you're going.

You what? I can multitask thank you very much. And I don't need to look where I'm going all the time - if one did, then there would be a lot of accidents!
[QUOTE=S14 DRIFT;1164468][QUOTE=S14 DRIFT;1164468]The faster the crank spins the more planted it feels, I normally keep it above 8000 when taking the corners.. redlines 11.5k.[/quote]More bullshit from the bullshit machine, eh?
[QUOTE=S14 DRIFT;1164468]I'm sure they'd manage without them[/quote]Yeah, it's such a waste. I'm sure the majority of race drivers and riders will take that onboard from someone barely out of nappies who's never driven or ridden in a race enviroment.
[QUOTE=S14 DRIFT;1164468]Bye I'm going out. [/QUOTE]You won't be missed here. But I feel sorry for those at your destination

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

My Dad ... no rev counter.. he ragged it everywhere ... any good driver

Hahaha, "ragged it everywhere" and "good driver" do not fit even remotely close together.

A rev counter is useful, when I am scanning the road ahead, while overtaking a tractor at the same time checking my mirrors so I know I am a safe distance away to pull in, it is a lot easier to just glance my eyes over the rev counter when going from point to point. You tend not to actually read the numbers either, I just look at where the needle is and can decided how much further to go.

You can hear an audible difference in the engine, but when you stay under 2,500RPM for road driving anything over that is just a noise that means nothing, so getting a visual gauge that you could stay in this gear a little longer before changing is helpful.

Plus I get the impression you're lying, bikes without a rev counter are a pain because when you have a lid on you cannot hear what the engine is doing, more so when you consider a lot of bikers actually wear ear plugs because of the noise a lid generates when you're actually going faster than 30MPH.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

I'm sure they'd manage without them

No you can't, my mate who has an F4 car (similar kind of thing to Tristan's but spaceframe and a bit slower) had his tachometer intermitently fail and eventually pack up altogether on an old dashboard (which also acted as the rev limiter) in the car, three rebuilds later he conceded that trying to save money fixing the old dash wasn't working... Now if he's been racing for 20 years and successfully racing the same car with the same engine that he built for the last 5 years and can't manage to do a race without overrevving and damaging a mildly tuned production engine then you would stand very little chance of listening to the revs of a lightweight high revving engine with no track or race experience at all.

Yey, I haz new tyre on my motorcycles.

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

Hahaha, "ragged it everywhere" and "good driver" do not fit even remotely close together.

A rev counter is useful, when I am scanning the road ahead, while overtaking a tractor at the same time checking my mirrors so I know I am a safe distance away to pull in, it is a lot easier to just glance my eyes over the rev counter when going from point to point. You tend not to actually read the numbers either, I just look at where the needle is and can decided how much further to go.

You can hear an audible difference in the engine, but when you stay under 2,500RPM for road driving anything over that is just a noise that means nothing, so getting a visual gauge that you could stay in this gear a little longer before changing is helpful.

Plus I get the impression you're lying, bikes without a rev counter are a pain because when you have a lid on you cannot hear what the engine is doing, more so when you consider a lot of bikers actually wear ear plugs because of the noise a lid generates when you're actually going faster than 30MPH.

I can hear my engine up till arond 65-70 but then again I do have a loud fart can. Below this I don't need to look at the revs, I can feel and hear. :|

However yes it's kinda hard to tell below say, 3500 on my bike at least, but then again it has little power from there.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Sorry, to double post, but the amount of moron in this post deserves it...

You what? I can multitask thank you very much. And I don't need to look where I'm going all the time - if one did, then there would be a lot of accidents!

Accidents are fun. But no, observation is teh keyz0r.

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More bullshit from the bullshit machine, eh?

Still following your example.

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Yeah, it's such a waste. I'm sure the majority of race drivers and riders will take that onboard from someone barely out of nappies who's never driven or ridden in a race enviroment.

Did I say they should remove them? No. Did I say they could manage without them? Probably.

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You won't be missed here. But I feel sorry for those at your destination

Didn't expect to be missed. Bloke at the tyre shop was friendly and I had lol's.

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

Plus I get the impression you're lying, bikes without a rev counter are a pain because when you have a lid on you cannot hear what the engine is doing, more so when you consider a lot of bikers actually wear ear plugs because of the noise a lid generates when you're actually going faster than 30MPH.

You actually hear the bike and motor easier when wearing ear plugs because you eliminate (drastically reduce) the wind noise. Without ear plugs, I couldn't hear the bike at all. With ear plugs, I could hear it just fine.

In my 4 years of riding, I could not convince my buddy I rode with to wear ear plugs. So much more enjoyable with ear plugs, as well as much less damaging to your hearing.

I'd imagine that's because you're mostly hearing the bike through your body, than through your now sealed ears. One advantage of sitting on top of the engine.

When I ride my dirt bikes I have to use the sound of the engine to find shift points. There is no tachometer and no Speedometer on my mini crosser, and my 81' XL125s has a speedometer but no tachometer.

If you know the vehicle well enough you can judge shift points completely by feel. Automakers don't expect you to actualy do this and they put that very distracting round thing in the dash so you will look at it when you should be looking at the road ahead.

My friend's old CT70 actualy physicaly tells you when to shift, on redline it has a certain resonance to the frame of the bike. This obviously isn't a feature, but it trains you very quickly to be able to shift by ear.

People who need to look at the tachometer for shift points or feel they need a shift light should probably not be driving a manual gearbox.

I know some race cars have shift lights, but I bet that after the driver gets used to the car and its gearing he never even sees it.

Quote from DragonCommando :

People who need to look at the tachometer for shift points or feel they need a shift light should probably not be driving a manual gearbox.

Says the man who believes coasting round corners is a racing technique...

Quote from ajp71 :

Says the man who believes coasting round corners is a racing technique...

I've seen that referenced in The Unit, I almost shat myself laughing when the "defensive driving instructor" for the army/special forces said while approaching a 90 degree corner "okay, now drop it back into neutral." It was such a ludicrous suggestion, but for whatever reason a lot of people on that side of the puddle seem to consider it to be the correct way to drive a manual car.

Quote from mrodgers :

You actually hear the bike and motor easier when wearing ear plugs because you eliminate (drastically reduce) the wind noise. Without ear plugs, I couldn't hear the bike at all. With ear plugs, I could hear it just fine.

In my 4 years of riding, I could not convince my buddy I rode with to wear ear plugs. So much more enjoyable with ear plugs, as well as much less damaging to your hearing.

Indeed, I'm so used to ear plugs I can't ride well if I don't have them in, and what's more I think my bike sounds nicer....

Quote from ajp71 :

K&N filters will not add 2-3bhp, that is a huge increase, especially in a low power engine.

only depending on displacement - if you have under 1.6 i doubt you'll even notice anything more then noise.

Quote from theirishnoob :

only depending on displacement - if you have under 1.6 i doubt you'll even notice anything more then noise.

yeah,but on more power cars,you do feel the difference,but only on high rpm's

Quote from e2mustang :

yeah,but on more power cars,you do feel the difference,but only on high rpm's

ill give you a prime example


3 friends

one with a 07 m5, one with a 97 lancer "GsRAWR" 1.3 and my brothers old 1.9 205 gti

the m5 - feel and hear it all the way through the range, Very tasty little mod

lancer - noise... just noise

gti - from about 2-3k the rev range you actually notice a difference.

Quote from theirishnoob :

ill give you a prime example


3 friends

one with a 07 m5, one with a 97 lancer "GsRAWR" 1.3 and my brothers old 1.9 205 gti

the m5 - feel and hear it all the way through the range, Very tasty little mod

lancer - noise... just noise

gti - from about 2-3k the rev range you actually notice a difference.

yap,just like on my cars,the honda had noise,the m3 has power and a beauty sound,unfortunetly its not a supercar,so its only on higher rpm(like 3500-4000)

Quote from e2mustang :

yap,just like on my cars,the honda had noise,the m3 has power and a beauty sound,unfortunetly its not a supercar,so its only on higher rpm(like 3500-4000)

and thats where you want it when you give the pedal ome weight, the noise and acceloration kicks in...


6 cyl engines are The sex with it.