Hello.

The last few days I had the feeling that the grip as a function of temperature has changed a lot in the patch S.
Today and yesterday I ran tests on this.
Both tests are run with the FOX on Fern Bay Gold, because I have a fair amount of experience with this combination so errors are only a small factor.
First test: Do a 30 laps race on R1 tyres.
Second test: Do a 30 laps race on R2 tyres.

In the first test the R1 tyres heat up to 80-85°C pretty quickly. They are orange-red. I achieve laptimes from 1:15:34 to 1:15:8* without counting unlucky laps (only one or two). No laptimes are counted where the tyres are below 80°C.
In the second test the R2 tyres heat up to 87° at the most, 82° at the least. They are in their optimum range. I achieve laptimes from 1:15:76 to 1:16:3* without counting unlucky laps.
(Most noticably the tyres lack the ability to put down power, sometimes understeer is a problem. The setup was adjusted to R2s.)

From a previous test I know that R1 tyres hold a good bit longer than 45 laps, which is over an hour race-distance. R2s will propably hold longer, but I didn't make a longer test.

So, what exactly is the advantage of R2 tyres? At the end of the 30-lap race I already achieved a 15 seconds-advantage with the R1s over the R2s. After 45 laps the advantage would be 22 seconds. Enough to justify twice as many pitstops as someone on R2s. So I assume that, at least for my driving, there is no condition where R2 tyres are useful.

My questions:
Was I just unlucky? Did other people make a different experience?

Vain

Well for the fox I agree, I've done a fox-league with my team, and I can't remember a track that gave tire problems. Mostly the car runs out of fuel before the tires pop. And since r1's are the fastest....
On other cars, other compounts can have their uses.

But I must say, this is all without the patch, I noticed that the tires last much longer with the patch (at least for the GTR's), so I guess other tires have lost their use even more.

I'd like to see the results of something heavier than the FOX. The FZR would be a good candidate since it has a reputation for eating tires.

So you are agreeing that R1s at 85°C (well over-heated) are superior to R2s at their optimum temperature?
I just thought that this is pretty wrong...

Vain

I run the Vixen Challenge (Formula XR League) which is currently in it's second season. We run 15 minute and 45 minute races and I am not aware of anyone ever running anything other than R1 tyres in either season. I think we really need softer compounds for the Formula XR than the R2 tyre 'cause at the moment it's simply useless.

Not softer, as that would also imply more grip - the grip is fine. But the wear/heating rates of the tyres needs tweaking.

I think the advantage or disadvantage of the different tires will not become readily apparent until we have varying track and air temps. The colder the track and air are the softer the tire you use. As temps come up progressively harder tires are used. This is true in real racing, RC racing and hopefuly in time LFS as well.

While softer tire grip better in low temetures all tire compounds are designed to provide about the same level of grip when used in the ambiant temp range they were designed to run in. On a hot day a harder tire will get just as soft and sticky as a soft tire does on a cool day.

Quote from Vain :

So, what exactly is the advantage of R2 tyres? At the end of the 30-lap race I already achieved a 15 seconds-advantage with the R1s over the R2s. After 45 laps the advantage would be 22 seconds. Enough to justify twice as many pitstops as someone on R2s. So I assume that, at least for my driving, there is no condition where R2 tyres are useful.

22 seconds advantage over 45 lap is NOT enough to make a pitstop and then resume still in your position if all you have is 22 seconds on the person behind.

Say the pitstop for tires takes 10-12 seconds you also have to slow down and enter the pits. Drive the entire length of the pit lane at under 50mph and then re-join with cold tires. So a single tire change will cost far more time than just changing the tires. So on a long race where R1 means a stop and R2 does not it might be better to use R2.

At present no servers really run race lengths that make tires choice an issue so it makes sense to run the faster ones.

My team a 3hr race on WE int Sunday with the FZR with upgrade patch "T". R2's all around. I'm hard on the fronts as I will drive through a push. Got 27 to 28 laps (65% of fuel load) before popping a front tire (right front). I average high 1:34's and dip into the 1:33's after 50% fuel. My temps were high (low 90's) but the tire grip was as good as running cooler. I love the way the new (after patch) tires feel. Time before the event did not let me test R3's. I may have to do a followup test.

I don't have much experience with patch T yet but with Q I raced quite a lot of 1hr + league races. The general rule of thumb for me was to let the tyres peak at around 10-15 degrees above optimum. 15 degrees was the max because it was where the grip loss was too high. Having the tyres peak around 10 degrees above optimal was best overall in long stints I found as you'd get the longest period where they were at optimal temp and they wouldn't be too cold near the end of their life.
I imagine it will be similar with T so it doesn't surprise me that R1's were the best in the fox for you. Like others said a better test might be in the GTR's.

With the F08, on my side, I realised that R3s to optimum temperature are quicker than overheating R2s. That was not the case before the patch. So Im quite happy with that.

I also found that running with higher pressures on the R2's with the XRR will make the tires last without overheating for the entire tread life of the tire. That really did not happen before patch R (now T). You could only run a couple of laps with R2's before they overheated. You pretty much had to run R3's for races of any length at all.

I also like the fact that if you run tires under-pressure, which was the norm before, you can really feel the difference in how the car responds. Low pressures lead to a mushy feeling where higher (closer to realistic) pressures make the car feel more crisp and you don't lose as much grip as you used to. The tires do take a while to come up to temperature, but they eventually do.

I really wonder about the usefulness of R4 tires right now for any car. They are too hard, they don't take heat well and they don't stick. It is nice now that the R2's are a viable option for races as opposed to just being used for hotlaps.

Quote from Hallen :

I also like the fact that if you run tires under-pressure, which was the norm before, you can really feel the difference in how the car responds. Low pressures lead to a mushy feeling where higher (closer to realistic) pressures make the car feel more crisp and you don't lose as much grip as you used to.

Yeah, this is great Just a change of 2 psi either direction is really quite noticeable...

At the moment we're running the italian league of LFS and i can say we've noticed tyers to last much longer than before.
The first race we'got (after the patch) has been on FeGold with Rac & Lx4. Before the patch after 30 laps my front tyers on the Rac were almost gone (wear was up to 90%).
After the patch (always 30 laps) they were 45-55% worn. Obviously this is the only experience i had after the patch, so your guess (the tyres lasts longer) for me works for race_normal tyres too.

So are you guys all running the BF1 on its softest available tyre compound for races under, say, 15 laps? (Sorry, can't remember whether that would be R2 or R3.)

I've run the BF1 with R2's for 20 lap races earlier this week / last week on BLGP. I certainly found that I had an advantage in terms of grip from the start, it evens out about mid-race, and then the R2's will severely drop off about lap 18-ish. So rather than lapping in the low 57's, high 56's, you have to do mid-57's to low-59's to avoid sliding. I do tend to be rather harsh with my tyres, so I reckon you could probably push them a little longer, perhaps 25 laps, if you were very careful.

However, most people I was racing at the time were using R3's for even small races; which didnt make much sense to me.

Thanks, Karl, that makes sense. I have only used R3s so far myself as that's what's on the Race_S setup. I remain a BF1 noob and have really only driven it for the novelty value. (Am having too much fun with actually being able to keep the LX4 pointed forwards.)

Quote from Hallen :

I also found that running with higher pressures on the R2's with the XRR will make the tires last without overheating for the entire tread life of the tire. That really did not happen before patch R (now T). You could only run a couple of laps with R2's before they overheated. You pretty much had to run R3's for races of any length at all.

That's strange because I found the exact opposite in patch q, my main problem with the slicks was I never found a situation where running R2's wasn't the best option (XFR was the only car I ran R3's in league races, on the front of course). Bearing in mind what I said above about letting temps peak around 10 degrees above optimum.
It did sometimes take pretty large increases in tyre pressure so maybe the big difference with patch t is that smaller changes in pressure yield the same results without needing to use what may have been unrealisticly high pressures.

i have to complain about the patch a little bit.

of course, the tires are much more better, but the difference between R2 and R3 is even worse.

I had a 1hour ESL race yesterday, and because the EPS drivers had problem with the R2 tires towards the end of the race, i decided to mount R3s to the rear of the FZR.

But after 40 minutes they lose all the grip because they get to cold. It was almost undrivable. So even over a long distance, the R2 are better than the R3 (unless you have some big drifts, spins or flatspots), which is clearly not right.
Not to mention that the tires last now over an hour and the fuel consumption is lower, so you don't need to pit anymore in a one hour race.

The tire physcis by itself is great now, it just needs some balancing between the tire options like 1 qualy tire for 1-2 fast laps, 1 soft tire with more grip over a shorter time and a harder tire with less grip over a long distance.

So let's hope for some changes in the next patches