There's not many where i go to study who enjoys motorsports so an argument between me and my fellow peers was inevitable. Basically someone argued that "racing is not important or relevant to society" and is "wasteful".

I argued for the personal aesthetics of racing. The roar of the engine, the speed of the cars, the cars themselves, the sheer sophistication or mass of tracks etc. But besides the aesthetics point of view i couldn't think of any positive and practical impact on society or the world that racing has.

I'm thinking there is one and the poverty of my knowledge is holding me back from countering that argument. So I ask you, fellow LFSers, is racing "practically" important? What has developed as a result from racing?

It has given 3 developers an income for themselves and family. =) You cant tell me thats not important!

Racing car advancemenths have filtered through to production road cars, giving us faster, more efficient personal transport.

Just like tennis is not important, soccer is not important, boxing is not important.......so what is important?

accounting is important, politics is important, economics is important...they are important because they keep the world running.

but racing, like many other sport and hobbies, are there to make the world worth living in.

isn't that simple?

Ask your friend if he has any hobbie and passion, be it fashion, fishing, opera, design......I garuntee you can see a common point of all these activites.

seeing there are a million of race drivers, and many many more followers, how can he claim it's not relevant to society? Unless he think society isn't made up of people with individual taste and goals, but simply a Highest Common Factor of things everyone deem nesscary.

Quote :

accounting is important

No it isnt, it's a self sustaining industry. Do you understand what it is that accountants do? Here's an example: http://crisisofcredit.com/

They whole thing is just an artificial construct and most of accountancy exists only in theory.

If there was no accountancy in the world, or if the worlds economy was sufficientcly simple that the practice of accountancy was substantially reduced so that any idiot could do it, then the world would be a better place.

Now if you simplified motor racing would the world be a better place? I argue that technological advance is a natural product of high technology sports, and whilst technology is not the primary purpose of racing it has at least had some positive impact on society.

Whereas accountcies only impact on society is to make a select few people artificially rich within their own artificial banking system and to reign the spoils of their broken fortune and greed onto us ordinary folk when it all goes wrong.

Racing has no purpose, other than the excitement and thrill of the spectacle itself. It is a colleseum, within which gladiators compete, it is a dangerous and wonderful sport, but it is just sport. Just because it has happened to do a few good things for the world does not meen that is its purpose, it's purpose, is to entertain.

And until you've either sat in a two stroke kart and opened up the throttle, felt the thrill of just how much a single seater sticks to the road as it goes around a corner, or partaken in the gladitorial battle for position against a fellow competitor, or until you have stood at the side of the track as the wall of noise from a field of Formula 1's belting around the first lap physically hits your stomach, or watched a lower formula event then you have missed some of things that for me make this such a wonderful world to live in.

It just happens that racing also does more good for the world than banking, aswell as being more fun.

http://www.sciencemuseum.org.u ... lleries/fast_forward.aspx

i knew this was on, but i'm so busy with exams atm...anyway, i just realised it's on until 2010, so i'll have to go and visit it when i have free time again. also, does this help with the point you're trying to make?

Quote from lizardfolk :

Basically someone argued that "racing is not important or relevant to society" and is "wasteful".

There are so many things that are "not important or relevant to society" and "wasteful". Do they want to get rid of all these things? Life would be quite boring then.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Racing car advancemenths have filtered through to production road cars, giving us faster, more efficient personal transport.

That argument comes up quite often, but is it really true?

unibody design -> aircraft
aerodynamics -> aircraft
Fuel injection -> aircraft
turbochargers -> diesel ships & locomotives, aircraft
ABS -> aircraft
Variable valve timing -> steam engines / aircraft
carbon fiber -> aircraft

EBD -> luxury car
crumple zones -> luxury car
air bags -> luxury car
power steering -> luxury car
macpherson strut -> luxury car
4wd -> tractor
engine management computer -> normal car

superchargers -> race car
Disk brakes -> race car
ESP -> muscle cars

Other than disk brakes, i don't see much inventions that were made by the car racing industry.

sorry, is that list saying [technology] --> [who invented it] or [technology] --> [what its used by now]?

Racing is important for the people that enjoy it, if you don't enjoy it/or enjoy watching it.......................then go away.

Every sport/or form of entertainment is that way.

I chuckled at the "ABS -> aircraft" one.

Aircraft undercarriage is for separating aircraft from landing strips, the wheel brakes are not principally used for stopping aircraft, except from very low manoeuvring speeds. ABS is used for reducing tyre wear on aircraft, but the tyres themselves are designed to slip.

So, skydiving isn't important, neither is kicking a ball about on a field for 90 minutes, and doing lines of crack up your nose is certainly wasteful, yet people still do these things, because they are hobbies and addictions.

Ok, if we're going to have that attitude, then drinking is wasteful, lets bring in Prohibition shall we?

Quote from kingfag :

Other than disk brakes, i don't see much inventions that were made by the car racing industry.

You're over simplifying things, it's definately true that aerodynamics research began on airplanes, but it without racing industry we probably wouldn't have everyday cars with very low drag and advanced underbody aerodynamics that create downforce in high speeds to stabilize the car.

Same deal with 4WD, that development really took off once it was introduced in rally cars.

racing is as ''wasteful'' as any other sport/hobby. some people think its pointless to kick a ball into a goal and protest against that and tell the money should go for some non-jobbed bums who would just get more booze with it, and then there is the ones that actually enjoy life and what are they doing and dont want to give up their hobby and think its wasteful
so my point is that it is and isnt wasteful at the same time

Quote from lizardfolk :

What has developed as a result from racing?

The repertoire of idiotic correlations in marketing campaigns.

Quote from SamH :

I chuckled at the "ABS -> aircraft" one.

Aircraft undercarriage is for separating aircraft from landing strips, the wheel brakes are not principally used for stopping aircraft, except from very low manoeuvring speeds. ABS is used for reducing tyre wear on aircraft, but the tyres themselves are designed to slip.

Reverse thrust is used on airliners and fast jets yes, but there *is* a lot of wheel-braking going on too and ABS is a very important part of that.

Quote from kingfag :

That argument comes up quite often, but is it really true?

unibody design -> aircraft
aerodynamics -> aircraft
Fuel injection -> aircraft
turbochargers -> diesel ships & locomotives, aircraft
ABS -> aircraft
Variable valve timing -> steam engines / aircraft
carbon fiber -> aircraft

EBD -> luxury car
crumple zones -> luxury car
air bags -> luxury car
power steering -> luxury car
macpherson strut -> luxury car
4wd -> tractor
engine management computer -> normal car

superchargers -> race car
Disk brakes -> race car
ESP -> muscle cars

Other than disk brakes, i don't see much inventions that were made by the car racing industry.

Since when isn't a luxury or a race car a car? :doh:

and FTR the first recorded use of disks was on the Crosley Hotshot in 1949..but they had been patented in the 1890's.... RELIABLE disks were first used in 1953 by the Jaguar Type C racing car...

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Since when isn't a luxury or a race car a car? :doh:

and FTR the first recorded use of disks was on the Crosley Hotshot in 1949..but they had been patented in the 1890's.... RELIABLE disks were first used in 1953 by the Jaguar Type C racing car...

we are talking about race cars(not sure, didnt read the whole thread but i quess so) and luxury cars arent a part of that.

Quote from batteryy :

we are talking about race cars(not sure, didnt read the whole thread but i quess so) and luxury cars arent a part of that.

To be fair, the use of disk brakes was in the Citroen DS and some random Triumph 2 years after the successful use of disk brakes in racing.

That I think is enough.

Quote from SamH :

I chuckled at the "ABS -> aircraft" one.

Aircraft undercarriage is for separating aircraft from landing strips, the wheel brakes are not principally used for stopping aircraft, except from very low manoeuvring speeds. ABS is used for reducing tyre wear on aircraft, but the tyres themselves are designed to slip.

They are used for stopping the aircraft. Otherwise you would need a significantly longer runway. On both Boeing and Airbus airliners, it's a standard operation to use the wheel brakes (via "autobrake").

Quote from Crommi :

You're over simplifying things, it's definately true that aerodynamics research began on airplanes, but it without racing industry we probably wouldn't have everyday cars with very low drag and advanced underbody aerodynamics that create downforce in high speeds to stabilize the car.

Same deal with 4WD, that development really took off once it was introduced in rally cars.

Well, we don't have everyday cars with very low drag and advanced underbody aerodynamics. Everyday cars of today are designed by graphic artists, not by aerodynamic engineers. I can't think of any new everyday car with a flat underbody, let alone venturi tunnels and/or diffusers. In fact, those massive front grills that seem quite popular these days are huge drag generators.

In the manual of my dad's 09 jetta, it says the car has ground effects :banana_ra

Quote from kingfag :

I can't think of any new everyday car with a flat underbody, let alone venturi tunnels and/or diffusers.

(although I doubt it actually does much)

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i think this one's got pretty aerodynamic body +etc. and its street legal

Quote from batteryy :

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i think this one's got pretty aerodynamic body +etc. and its street legal

Not an everyday car though.