Quote from BBC News :

Car giant General Motors is expected to file for bankruptcy protection later on Monday, marking the biggest failure of an industrial company in US history.

Source.

Discuss.

They won't be missed. Except by the folks they employed. Rubbish at making cars.

The lesson here is - this is what happens when you keep designing massive petrol-drinking engines in a recession when fuel prices are sky high.

I'm a big Chevy fan, I love Camaro's of pretty much all ages, but I couldn't afford to run one.

Vauxhall and Opel have been bought though so they'll survive. It seems the Ford Mustang will be the only surviving american muscle car.

Quote from Dajmin :

The lesson here is - this is what happens when you keep designing massive petrol-drinking engines in a recession when fuel prices are sky high.

You forgot using the same engine for 40 years, and engines that are 6L V8's only producing 240bhp and 320lb/ft, which powerwise any 3L diesel (look at BMW's 3 litre Diesel...) could match and give triple the fuel economy... seriously..

Quote from Dajmin :

The lesson here is - this is what happens when you keep designing massive petrol-drinking engines in a recession when fuel prices are sky high.

So it would have been better all these years to produce vehicles no one wanted rather than the vehicles that sold? I look around town and at work and GM did rather well with their massive petrol-drinking vehicles.

Obviously, yeah, they should have had some R&D in the works, but it was rather sudden over here with the fuel price increase. 2007 I was paying $2/gallon, 2008 I was paying over $4/gallon. That's quite an increase in just a year, far quicker than you could expect an automotive manufacturer to completely revamp their product, especially when folks were still buying the big stuff like it was going out of style.

Fact of the matter is, they are an American manufacturer, the largest American manufacturer. No one around me is buying cars, big or small. They are keeping their cars now rather than buying new constantly. No one wants little tiny underpowered cardboard boxes. They are quite difficult to drive around here with things called hills and mountains.

Quote from mrodgers :

They are quite difficult to drive around here with things called hills and mountains.

The rest of the world has dealt with "underpowered cardboard boxes" and hills for a very long time.

Are American hills special or something?

You realise those fuel prices are still almost half what we pay here? It was less than half when I was in the US last year and they were still complaining about it. We're at around $7.40/gallon here. But that's a secondary issue.

They've been talking about running out of fossil fuel for decades. Deciding to start R&D on alternatives now is too little, too late. When you're showing off your <4s 0-62 6.0l V8 engine, it looks great and sounds fantastic, but you aren't making something that the general public (ie, most of your market) actually wants, recession or not. I still love the quote "It passes everything but a petrol station".

People aren't buying new right now, I'll give you that one. But as a long-term investment (well, cash sink-hole is more appropriate) goes, a reliable, economical car definitely looks better when you're about to hand over your cash on the forecourt.

Quote from mrodgers :

I look around town and at work and GM did rather well with their massive petrol-drinking vehicles.

Why are they bancrupt then?

Quote from mrodgers :

Obviously, yeah, they should have had some R&D in the works, but it was rather sudden over here with the fuel price increase. 2007 I was paying $2/gallon, 2008 I was paying over $4/gallon. That's quite an increase in just a year, far quicker than you could expect an automotive manufacturer to completely revamp their product, especially when folks were still buying the big stuff like it was going out of style.

Well, you didn't have to be a genius to know that oil prices are a) prone to sudden change, and b) are rising constantly. Heck, since the oil crisis in the 70ies there was plenty of time to come up with solutions to possible future problems like we face today.
So IMHO it's just the result of a long history of bad strategy and politics, and well deserved.
I do pity the thousands of people who will lose their jobs in the wake of this.

Quote from mrodgers :

No one wants little tiny underpowered cardboard boxes. They are quite difficult to drive around here with things called hills and mountains.

Come on, Austria isn't what most people consider a flat country (with Alps and all that), but I have yet to encounter a single road I couldn't manage with an "underpowered cardboard box".
As long as you don't need to drive offroad, there's absolutely no need for a big 4wd car.
Also, it's a fatal misconception that driving an SUV is safer than driving an ordinary modern car. It's just that with driving an SUV, you make it more dangerous for those who drive ordinary cars which are perfectly safe as long as they don't crash into some huge SUV.

If I remember correctly most family cars, such as Ford Focus, Mondeo, etc, are safer than things like Hummers and Ford Explorers, etc...

Their fault trying to out perform Toyota and Ford.

GM have got too big for their own boots, they have their hands in so many car companies that they are now going down with GM because GM were too proud and idiotic to sell them.

Bad times weight the value of a company far better than great profits during easy times. It's well deserved that badly run companies die away.

Holy Crackheads!!! Twenty seven billion dollars! and twenty one thousand jobs, tis a sad day

gm have/had the BL syndrome, too big, there are too big to survive this sort of thing. ford were smart when the got rid of jaguar land rover because they knew they were too big to support themselves as the recession set it. im just happy opel/vauxhall are gonna be ok, vauxhall have been doing ok compared to other car makes in britian, and anyway i need a job lol

Quote from mrodgers :

No one wants little tiny underpowered cardboard boxes. They are quite difficult to drive around here with things called hills and mountains.

sounds like your engines dont have much compression

i think they should be left to fail or given the strictest of sanctions:

1) be class leading spec

2) most economic

3) cheaper then the rest

4) respectable build quality


just a simple guideline for them to follow and they'll survive with ease.


They have the man power, but do they have the motivation to pull it off ?

the funny and stupid thing is when GM does file for bankrubtcy the US and Canadian Govermants will be buying part of the company with the US taking 60% of GM and canada will take 12% and UAW 18% but they are doing it because the US and Canada all ready have to many unemployed people and if GM fails they have even more so they are buying into GM and the goverments are going to partly run GM. Which sucks. FAIL GM FAIL

Quote from trebor901 :

Vauxhall and Opel have been bought though so they'll survive. It seems the Ford Mustang will be the only surviving american muscle car.

And ford say the 2010 gt500 will take turns well.

GM will become American Leyland.

Edit: I didn't double post. The guy who was before me deleted his post

Finally.

Seriously, I can't name one new good car of GM

well if you include all their sub comapnies i would say the insignia is definatly a very good new car from gm

I kind of liked the GTO and G8 GXP

Does that mean that there will not be any new models of Saab, Chevy, Pontiac, Hummer etc?

Quote from Syfoon :

The rest of the world has dealt with "underpowered cardboard boxes" and hills for a very long time.

Are American hills special or something?

No, American hills aren't special.

But you have to remember that big American SUVs and pickups have extra cargo requirements than rest of world vehicles. For one, they have to accomodate a sense of self-righteousness as they cheerfully average 15mpg, dropping bits of badly made, badly fitted plastic trim into the footwells as they go. Secondly, the owner needs space to store all the excuses for when he/she is confronted about why they're driving something three times larger than what they actually need.

Quote from ColeusRattus :

Why are they bancrupt then?

I think you can blame the UAW for the millstone they hung around GM's neck with a one-off payment of $20bn to settle mounting pension and healthcare costs.