Will this affect anything but the visuals of the wheel taking more turns?
Edit:
Hmm, still isn't matching the virtual and real wheel! When my real wheel is turned 90 degrees, the virtual is turned ca 180 degrees. It turns faster around center, and slower when nearing the limits.
Edit2:
Nevermind, i figured it out!
Also, getting the wheel properly set up, taking the e30 m3 out on a trip around cadwell really did bring a smile to my face!
Race details
Server name - SIMRACEONLINE.COM LE MANS
Mod - ILMS v2.52LM Public Edition
Track - Le Mans 1972-1986 1.10 by Virtua_LM
Tyres - normal
Fuel - normal
Damage - 50%
Mechanical Failures - normal
Qualifying start time - 6pm EST, 11pm BST
Qualifying length - 20 minutes
Race start time - Approx. 6:30pm EST
Race length - 2 hours 24 minutes
Server password - rpm Manual rolling start will be used, check the rules & regs for more details. This race will also run under all the usual SROL rules & regs.
Signing up
When signing up please state which class and car you want to drive. If you wish to reserve a number for painting a skin please state that as well.
Cars & classes available: LMP1:
Audi R8
Pescarolo C60
Dome S101M
MG Lola EX 264
LMP2:
Dome S101J
MG Lola EX 257
Porsche RS Spyder
GT1:
Chevrolet Corvette C6.R
Sign-up list: LMP1 No.18 - Stephen Bailey - Audi R8 LMP1 John Bacho - Audi R8 LMP1 Skeetly - MG Lola EX 264 LMP2 AlexiusIII - Dome S101J LMP2 Butch Nackley - TBA LMP2 TGreen - Porsche RS Spyder LMP2 tibone - Dome S101J0
_________________
Well, I've given rfactor Historix Mod a good deal of time and effort over the last week or more. I've consulted numerous forums, downloaded real feel and tweaked my ini files extensively. With my passion for historic motorsport I really, really want to love it.......
But I just dont.
The sound and the graphics are fine, the reason is that I just don't feel the car on the road, and I don't realise I'm losing control until I've already lost it. More often than not, it's the rear end stepping out entering corners. Yes, with extensive practice and effort, I can learn not to make it happen by making sure my braking and entry speed are exact every time, but I don't want that. What I want is to feel what my car is doing on the road.
LFS does it for me (as did GPL), but not rfactor so far. Any tips or suggestions to get more 'feeling' out of this sim, I'm more than willing to listen to.
Pop on either RSR forums or Deadmen racing. We are both running the HistorX Mod lots and we are loving the feel. Read the info thats already posted on Deadmen and see if it helps. On our team Boogle is by far the wheel setup master so pop over and send him a PM.
I appreciate that you really WANT this, unlike plenty of simracers who try rFactor 5 minutes and uninstall it...
I haven't tried the Historix 1.01 mod for a while as I'm busy developing version 2's physics. I did the GTC76 class (and LMP72) so they're the faster-ish ones. There are things in the other cars (65 class) that I disagree with physics wise. By now, there are also things I disagree with with my own cars in the GTC76 class of course!
The mod comes with recommended realfeel settings. For the GTC76 cars you're best off setting the G25 control panel to:
- 900 degs
- 100 .. 105% force
- 0% damping 0% spring
For each car, buy the adjustable steering rack upgrade. Then in the car setup, go with 25 to 30 degrees to get a fairly realistic steering sensitivity. In game, the force feedback should be set to 'low', and make sure axis sensitivities are 50%, disabling things like speed sensitivity which can ruin things quite easily. Also, make sure you get really high framerates, and preferably use RivaTuner or Ati Tray Tools to set ''frames rendered ahead'' (ati = flip queueueue size) to 1 or 0.
The default setups are alright (bar the steering lock), at least, they are what I drive and they shouldn't be so far off to blame them for your failings.
Perhaps the Capri 2600 is a good car to start out with. Don't be afraid to move the brake bias forward, use 80% front bias.. The reason is you set the TRUE bias, normally the rear brakes are weaker so even with a 50/50 brake bias setup, the fronts would brake harder.. Not so in Historx. Secondly, engine braking is a bit too high so downshifting can cause a bit of rear end wobble, or worse.
If you don't heel & toe on the downshifts, try buying another car upgrade, select one of the shifter options that fits your driving style. This can make the sim auto-blip for you on the downshifts which should make it easier to slow down. Still, don't shift down too early, high revs = risk of rear end lockup!
There are plenty of tracks that are excessively bumpy and wobbly, most aren't too suited for nice racing. These bumps aren't as deadly for the soft-ish-ly sprung historic cars but they still upset the car more than they should. Try Virtua LM's Mid Ohio, also too bumpy but well made and drivable..
If you still have huge issues, I'd like to learn more about how you drive and stuff, possibly going online with you to learn a bit. You're not alone in feeling totally LOST with rFactor which I hope to understand a bit better.
We're working on version 2 of the Historx and our aim is of course to make the cars fairly natural to drive to the at least semi skilled.
Because there are those who may want to participate. Just because this is a LFS fourm doesn't mean everyone is hardcore LFS players. Why is there a Off-Topic section in a Racing Simulator fourm?
Wow. Lots of information to work with there, and straight from a dev's mouth.
For the record, I've mainly been driving the TC65 Falcon, and the GTC76 911 RS. Currently, I'm using a Momo with A1 GT Pedals and an Act Labs shifter.
Some of tyour suggestions I have already tried, but others I haven't, so hopefully there's a magic combination for me there somewhere.
I would be very interested in that event Suey but I don't have the time to enter any kind of event right now. Maybe when all of my exams are complete! Thanks for the heads up anyway.
The MOMO makes it difficult; you're forced to compromise in a way that is always sub optimal for driving..
To get correct sensitivity, your momo turns about 240 degs, vs a G25's 900. In other words, a G25 turns 3.75x more.. That means if you use 30 degrees in the car setup on a G25, you'd have to use 3.75x less on a MOMO wheel in order to have the same sensitivity.. That would be 8 degrees. This gives you correct sensitivity but no margin for error to correct slides; these cars do rely on a few quick corrections.
If you use the other extreme, 30 degrees car setup with the MOMO, steering is WAY too sensitive. You barely have to do any steering in order to create the maximum grip in the corners. This is VERY easy to overshoot, and you enter the understeer zone.. Then if you floor it out of a corner, the back comes round, and seemingly opposite lock doesn't work.. This is because you're first unwinding the understeer, which actually makes the front grip MORE! Only once the understeer is unwound, does the opposite lock make sense..
I've seen quite a few drivers with such a wheel doing exactly this. Tankslapper gallore! Its almost impossible to drive with 30 degrees steering on a MOMO..
Then there is the average, some 19 degrees, which might be a compromise but still has the steering about 2.5x more sensitive than those real cars would've had.
To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't have a good time driving with anything but a G25, the rotation and 'speed' of this wheel matches those old cars fairly well. They're tricky enough to drive then, let alone with a compromised wheel such as the MOMO.
Theoretically and simplified, if the front tires have peak slip at 8 degrees, and you're using 28 degs in setup on a 900 degrees G25, the steering ratio is 16:1. This means you have to turn your G25 sixteen degrees in order for the front tires to turn 1 degree. To reach 8 degrees, you'd have to turn 128 degrees. Turning this much means you're hitting the lock stops of a MOMO, just as you've reached this 8 degrees of wheel lock. Using 28 degrees on your momo means you only have to turn 30 degrees, NOT A LOT! to reach maximum cornering grip*. Instinct tends to make people turn more, towards 90 degrees, meaning you're deep into understeer..
Funny because I feel the opposite way. After racing the HistorX mod LFS just feels so stale to me I can't stand it (haven't touched it in weeks, as a result). Racing those historic racing cars close with other drivers really gives me a kick in a way I have never experienced in LFS. The car feels so alive and very connected to the road, unlike LFS.
You really do need a 900° steering wheel and preferably a clutch pedal, though. It really really does make a world of difference.
Downside to this mod is the downside to rFactor in general, ie. it's difficult to find online racing. Almost no servers with people on them, and then there's hundreds of different tracks that you can download so you have to see you have the right track if you want to join a server etc etc...
Yeah thats my only gripe too with rfactor is multiplayer, people are on but like you say so many tracks and mods, but now and again i hook up in a HistorX server and damn what a blast....
The other thing i dont get is that most peeps race in the megane cup and to me that is missing the point of rfactor, stiff naff cars what dont sound all that and are skitish... another mans crap is another mans gold me thinks.
My opinion is that rFactor has a weird kind of understeer feeling (maybe its just me), but with default setup it feels like that. Also when taking corners it sounds like its scraping.
The thing i do like about rFactor is the incar sound..
I feel more connected to LFS with driving, tho the sounds are plain and graphics basic (if you compare it to nowadays graphics available) but i like the LFS physics more.
I think I mentioned this before but its worth repeating.. You can't compare just LFS to rFactor. LFS is made by the same 3 people. Scawen has a certain approach to the physics model and the paramters that go into it. All the cars are likely to be build according to the same sort of 'visions', regarding physics.
rFactor also has a physics engine, it does graphics and sounds, but there are 3000 people supplying content. There are street cars available with more downforce than a Formula 3 car, there are cars that look like they're running on a 1997 Voodoo1 card, there are cars that sound like refrigurators.. However, there are also a few cars that are made with some physics logic, great looking 3D models and superb sounds.
LFS is of a constant quality, all cars and tracks are sort of roughly as good/bad. But when comparing to rFactor, you must also mention the car / track you're driving there as the quality difference between mods is just huge. This is such an essential and often overlooked thing when people try to compare sims!
Niels may you please in some point of the future make some early 90's modern classic like the Porsche 993 carrera, it would make my life complete.
Rfactor really need a quality Lotus mod as well.
I hope you ain't making the new historix physics too tidy and modern, I really miss a mod with realistic bodyroll and suspensions with horrible damping.
I play your mod for GTR-evo a hell of a lot, actually it was the reason why I brought the game, Not a great fan of rfactor and just wanted a nice car game that works with my g25 as a nice alternative to LFS.
Anyway having a bit of an issue with some of the more powerful cars from reading what you have said above I guess its down to an inaccurate steering setup.
In my profiler I use a 540 degree rotation and default in game setting for the car I dont have any setups for many of the Hisorical mod cars.
What settings do you recommend for a more realstic setting.
I find the old Escorts very hard to control at cadwell I guess its down to my steering being way to sensative.
After reading this thread it has got me a little interested, Im downloading the rfactor demo as we speak my question is, how easy will it be to set up my G25 so I get a "realistic feel" I take it the demo doesn't come with any realfeel or historyX mods? or will it work out without adding mods?
The thing about LFS that I like so much is the FF feels right without having to install anything extra, every other Sim I have tried with the exception of GPL maybe, just feels wrong,
I dont have alot of time to trawl forums looking for ways to "edit config files" or "set nagative values" I have done this and tried lots of FF settings with games before, I just want it to feel realistic, so I can get racing
I will post back on my experiance with the latest Rfactor demo, no doubt in a few pages time
I'm not speaking out of experience on this one as I've never tried the rFactor demo, but I've only heard bad things about it. The default content is rubbish, supposedly. You're better off downloading rFactor Lite (100mb) and installing some quality mods for it. I also don't know how the FFB feels with the default rF demo, but I don't think it's very good if you're used to LFS.
What I did was download rF Lite and the HistorX mod. That comes with the RealFeel plugin, which hardly requires any setting up. Just some basic things that are explained in the pretty extensive manual - like what to set the general forces at in the profiler etc - and then you can add or decrease force within the game with keyboard hotkeys, much like you do in LFS.
EDIT: just realized, the HistorX mod doesn't work with the rF demo, supposedly, so you'd need to buy it in order to enjoy this superb mod That's a damn shame.
You MUST set the degrees of rotation to 900 in the profiler. Let HistoriX do the rest. It does the job extremely well. Bite the bullet. The setup issue is not as big a deal as it is with LFS, as mostly they work well out of the box. Once you've got a handle on the cars then you can fiddle.
That's a damn shame.