Couldn't think of a better thread title. What I really mean is does adding simulation of advanced concepts alienate people who don't understand those advanced concepts? Say, for example, in the next patch we get brake heat simulation and this leads to brake fade after a few laps in some of the cars. A lot of us will understand what brake fade is and we'll welcome the addition because it adds another layer to the simulation. However, some people will never have heard of brake fade before. They'll think there's something wrong with the brakes because they can't stop as well on lap 5 as they could on lap 2. Some might come on the forum and ask why their brakes are worse, some might come on the forum and tell us how crap LFS is because the brakes get worse and some might just decide to stop using LFS because they don't understand why the brakes are like that and they don't care to learn.

Your example reminds me of tyre wear and clutch heat.

I don't think it's a problem to add advanced simulation features like this.

we are going to have this feature or this is just an example?

Quote from amp88 :

Say, for example, in the next patch we get brake heat simulation

Quote from oldnavy :

we are going to have this feature or this is just an example?

.

ah sorry, but i think lfs dont need players who dosent understand what is brakes wearing or clutch heating. Players like this could play arcade games and LFS isin't arcade

I think we had something similar when fuel consumption, tire heat, and tire wear were introduced. I do think there is a point where you can go to far (see NKPro's startup procedure) but for the most part, more complexity with the aim at greater realism is a good thing.

EDIT: Oh yeah, good point, hrtburnout. How could I forget clutch heat and the uproar over that.

Depends on the feature I think, but we already have a lot (most?) of the complicated stuff implemented. Grasping brake fade vs understanding the effects of toe, Ackermann, bump steer etc. As long as there's decent documentation in the final release, good default setups and the possibility of enforcing restricted-setup races there shouldn't be a problem.

Well I think no...

Simply because, some people might find it more fun learning and understanding the extra things on race/normal cars. Its part of the learning curve, I mean, no one was born perfect.

Same thing with karting and other racing at young ages. They usually dont know lots of stuff about the car/kart, what does what, and what happens. As they progress tho, they get better understanding.

Meh, none of what I wrote made sense. Brain freeze.....

Hopefully someone gets me

Quote from Forbin :

I think we had something similar when fuel consumption, tire heat, and tire wear were introduced. I do think there is a point where you can go to far (see NKPro's startup procedure) but for the most part, more complexity with the aim at greater realism is a good thing.

EDIT: Oh yeah, good point, hrtburnout. How could I forget clutch heat and the uproar over that.

the tire heat/wear etc came when s2 came, so porpably there wasn't too much of disagreeing those, specially against having them in the first place.

But if really adding realism to a sim alienated people, then adios - sim racing might not be for you.

If by people you mean drifter kids and idiots, then yes. But who cares?

I would love more excuses to be slow, I mean more things accurately simulated

On the other hand I don't like seeing stupid questions about feature x filling the forum. There's no way around that.. apparently reading the manual or using search requires too much brain power

It could turn some away, I know a few that felt the fun of racing in S1 was lost when S2 was released. The same will happen every time more variables are added to the driving. For some this will be a turn off for others like myself it is the very thing that would keep me here another ten years!

Imagine the uproar if track conditions (temperature variations, marbles, rubbered racing line, sand on track, etc) more complex tyre modeling (graining, tread failure, blistering, rubber flex and adhesion degradation, etc) better engine modeling, etc, etc

Some complexities actually make it easier though like flywheel inertia and clutch pack pre-load.

By definition, it will only alienate people who don't play LFS as a 'Racing Simulator'.
When you consider that game's title is 'Live For Speed: Online Racing Simulator', the answer is yes but who cares? LFS was not developed for their wants.

The more specialized and accurate LFS gets, the more challenging racing will be which in turn will turn off quite a few people from LFS.

However, I think of it as a benefit.
Currently it's fairly hard to have a clean race on a semi full server due to LFS's easy pick up and race nature.
Once we reach the point where general understanding of vehicle and mechanical dynamics is required to race longer then 5 laps, the population on the servers will be better drivers and more enjoyable races for many of us, IMO.

Or it could just mean that all servers will be running sub 5 lap races ....like they do now.
It's certainly a good point to raise.
As we've seen in the past, none of the people playing LFS for the Simulation part complained about fuel, clutch, tyres, etc.(except when things feel wrong of course). We have no problems with neither of those and look forward to much more realistic additions.

The crowd that spends their time with LFS here on the forum moaning about all and everything will simply have more fuel for moaning and eventually will go away...or so one can hope.

Can't really see a bad outcome except less income for the Devs.

There is an old proverb that goes somthing like this;
"you can please some of the people, some of the time, but you can't please all of the people, all of the time"

Well something could be added like a problem-tips help. When something 'bad' happens then a helpful popup appears or even just a button as an indication, eg: clutch is overheated, out of fuel, or brakes are too hot. It even could be like a damage map of the car if you'd rather that, or a series of icons that go red when the car part is wrecked/damaged.

It wouldn't give any extra info that isn't already available in F9, F10, just make it a little more intuitive.

The option to turn these tips or icons off would be for those that know the difference between a car and a boat.
newbs = win
n00bs = win
pros = win


Plus while were are here, there should be a server option so this info isn't available for pro racing.

Never realized there was such snobery in sim racing. I've been playing games for 30 years and know nothing about how a car works, I just love the speed and frill that you get from car sims/games.

Does this mean I'll have to take my questions else where???

I've already been advised my rig is far too powerfull to gain any respect in my previous post. LOL.

Anyway, if people want to play, they will. And if it gets too tough, they will go back to playing outrun.

random post ^^

Answer to your question...
There are no stupid questions - only stupid answers.

Quote from Bboy-MassUK :

Does this mean I'll have to take my questions else where???

I see nothing in this thread that would oppose the posing of legitimate, constructive inquiries that haven't already been answered in stickies or the LFS wiki

Thats ok then. Ive already been flammed once today for mentioning my Rig Specs in a post.lol

Quote from Bboy-MassUK :

Thats ok then. Ive already been flammed once today for mentioning my Rig Specs in a post.lol

That wasn't flaming, that was a friendly tease... Don't let it bring you down and you'll have a good time on here...