lol what's up with the current S2K invasion.
Washer jets to the headlights?
To be fair...any European NA 3L will kick out that amount of horsepower... the NA 3L petrol in a BMW still kicks out 250..and does 35 to the gallon on the cruise..and is refined..
I'm not having a dig against american cars, well actually I am. They need to catch up to the times and drop the "no replacement for displacement", because obviously there is! And it's called 4 valve heads, for a start! Most V8's in America still use 2 valves per cylinder!!
Anyway, off that topic now..
That's a lovely S2K there.. wouldn't normally go for the yellow but I think it suits it! Looks very clean under the bonnet.. do I spy that anti-speed camera spray on the licence plate?
buntatofu86 :
FTR It'll likely the the 2L, which as you know revs higher. The lower revving version was for the American market only.
Slightly off topic -
I think Hydrogen is the way forward. Simply put, the electricity we use comes from, mainly, fossil fuel. (Although the UK is trying to build Nuclear powerstations which aren't, obviously, burning the fiery substances we know as fossil fuels!)
The electrical grids simply wouldn't be able to cope with it. Over here, every time there's a break in a popular evening show such as EastEnders, all the lights flickers momentarily as 80% of the nation gets up to switch on their kettles. A small electrical drain, no?
Now imagine 75% of the nation switching on the electricity and leaving it running every night. The risk of power shortages are HUGE, and while manufacturers of electric vehicles are quick to boast a "quick charge", something like to 80% of battery capacity in an hour or something, they're not so quick to point out the small print. "You need to allow the batterys to charge for the full 8 hours at least once every 2 or 3 quick charges to prevent the battery's condition deteriorating and providing less power in the future.
And then you have the battery's themselves. They're the same sort you find in laptops. What happens if you overheat a battery on a Laptop? It explodes. Imagine leaving 75 laptops in a glasshouse, yes, you get the idea! And then these batteries have to be replaced every 2-3 years. What do we do with these batteries? The environmental reprocussions are looking pretty bleak, no?
With Hydrogen, you can make your own power in the car as it's required. No silly plugging in overnight, no trailing cables across the floor..
There's no emissions at all, anywhere, along the entire process. Hydrogen is the most commonly abundant substance in the entire universe, so we'll never run out of it.
Granted, the gathering and the storage of hydrogen is the biggest issue right now, however, we've had biggest fish to fry in the past, so to speak.
I'm sure there are old men in white coats beavering away with this problem, and I'm sure, within 25 years or so, the technology will exist within the automotive industry, and the infrastructure to deliver it, at an affordable price to families across the western world.
Gas guzzling? Guess you missed where I mentioned my gas mileage - 22/24 city, 26/28 hwy (gotten as high as 33mpg on full hwy trip). There are quite a few modern 4cyl cars that dont do that well on gas. Modern cars are ridiculously heavy for their size and kills gas mileage.
Also, what year is that diesel engine made? I bet it's not in the 80s. And yes, diesels do make crazy horsepower...I've raced a couple (stock/lightly modded) in my Tbird (with the old 225hp engine) and they have been very close.
You do seem to be forgetting that I'm referring to REAR WHEEL horsepower; much different from the "bhp" numbers that most people throw around. I have the dyno sheets to prove my numbers, and that was with wiped out main and rod bearings. "bhp" of my car is more around 280-290ish hp, accounting for drivetrain loss.
BTW....hope your little 4cyl cars have fun keeping up with this:
http://smg.photobucket.com/alb ... ¤t=PICT0001.flv Just a quick, short-shifted run to about ~85mph with the throttle not even opening all the way (new carb installed, havent adjusted the throttle cable yet).
EDIT:
Mustangs have been running 3 and 4 valve V8s for quite a few years now...i think you're the one that needs to catch up to the times. :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nSenMmqKh4
Hey look, an old fashioned pushrod V8 still gettin the job done for a fraction of the price. Whoda thunk?
And before we get into a "straight line vs road course" discussion...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6mEirkQN8o
You're an ignorant idiot. For starters, 250hp < 250rwhp. 250rwhp = ~290hp. Drivetrain loss. Don't forget the 300rwtq...which is about 340tq at the flywheel. Lets see a stock 4cyl that you love so much do that. S2000s are stock with, what, ~160tq (even less at the rear wheels)? And that's after how much technology advancement? Nobody (especially 4cyl nut swingers) ever seems to acknowledge torque numbers.
Second, I put a lot of time, money, and hard work (blood, sweat, tears, etc) into it. So did my father. You can't even respect that; you don't deserve to be in the hobby or consider yourself a car guy as far as I'm concerned.
Third, with that horsepower I can run with 350Zs, EVOs, and STIs for a fraction of the cost. Yeah, the car is set up to run mid 13s in the 1/4 mile...without AWD or loads of electronics. Considering it started out as a mid/high 16 sec car when I got it, I'd say it's doin pretty good.
How could I guess you'd bring up the ZR1 round the Nurburgring. That old chestnut. :rolleyes:
Ok, yes, you have a car that is very quick around the Nurburgring.. normally compared to the GTR or something... but what you're not so happy to mention is that if you give it to any normal enthusiast, they'd be faster in sometime less... archaic.. IE anyone that's not a professional racing driver would be quicker in something easier and more I mean not saying it's a BAD car, but leaf springs? Again, modernize!
Yes I'm fully aware of the BHP at the crank/at the wheels, FWIW the 3L diesel
Even the Z06 you posted uses 2 valves per cylinder! Just like most American engines.
And it never can capture the passion the same was as 10 cylinders screaming at 7500rpm, and it'll never be bright yellow!
The 4cyl cars we have get's us reliably, cheaply, cleanly and economically from A-B in relative, so mock all you like. But we have better technology, it's just the way it is..
As for economy, well, I don't drive cars, I just ride bikes, so I can only comment on my families cars.. My Dad (only person I ever really go in the car with) had a 2.2 Vectra.. It was quick..certainly quick enough without constantly wishing you had more power.. (150bhp or so.. most American cars with 3.5L engines kick out that amount of power! :jawdrop yet he managed to AVERAGE (not highway, AVERAGE) 38.6mpg. On the motorway, at around 65-75mph, it would be showing 50mpg on the trip computer.. make of that what you will. Besides who NEEDS a V8 kicking out 2## bhp when you can get a 2.5 or 3L petrol that does the same? But maybe that's just me?
Your video... impressive.. but doesn't sound like short shifting or anything less than full throttle to me..
Remeber, I ride bikes, acceleration of cars rarely phases me. But let's not sidetrack onto a car.v.bike thing
Besides, my motto is "any moron can go fast in a straight line. The true moron is the one that crashed into a tree at the next corner!"
While you're sorting out your engine technology, learn how to build interiors... Using the trays you get in bumper tins of biscuits is not acceptable, hence why European and Japanese cars sell in America, yet somehow American cars don't seem to sell well over here.. food for thought!
Ok, yes, you have a car that is very quick around the Nurburgring.. normally compared to the GTR or something... but what you're not so happy to mention is that if you give it to any normal enthusiast, they'd be faster in sometime less... archaic.. IE anyone that's not a professional racing driver would be quicker in something easier and more I mean not saying it's a BAD car, but leaf springs? Again, modernize!
Yes I'm fully aware of the BHP at the crank/at the wheels, FWIW the 3L diesel
Even the Z06 you posted uses 2 valves per cylinder! Just like most American engines.
And it never can capture the passion the same was as 10 cylinders screaming at 7500rpm, and it'll never be bright yellow!
The 4cyl cars we have get's us reliably, cheaply, cleanly and economically from A-B in relative, so mock all you like. But we have better technology, it's just the way it is..
As for economy, well, I don't drive cars, I just ride bikes, so I can only comment on my families cars.. My Dad (only person I ever really go in the car with) had a 2.2 Vectra.. It was quick..certainly quick enough without constantly wishing you had more power.. (150bhp or so.. most American cars with 3.5L engines kick out that amount of power! :jawdrop
yet he managed to AVERAGE (not highway, AVERAGE) 38.6mpg. On the motorway, at around 65-75mph, it would be showing 50mpg on the trip computer.. make of that what you will. Besides who NEEDS a V8 kicking out 2## bhp when you can get a 2.5 or 3L petrol that does the same? But maybe that's just me? Your video... impressive.. but doesn't sound like short shifting or anything less than full throttle to me..
Remeber, I ride bikes, acceleration of cars rarely phases me. But let's not sidetrack onto a car.v.bike thing
Besides, my motto is "any moron can go fast in a straight line. The true moron is the one that crashed into a tree at the next corner!"
While you're sorting out your engine technology, learn how to build interiors... Using the trays you get in bumper tins of biscuits is not acceptable, hence why European and Japanese cars sell in America, yet somehow American cars don't seem to sell well over here.. food for thought!
Ok, it seems we have another person indulging himself in the torque myth and misunderstanding. Torque is just one variable in the equation to produce horsepower and horsepower is what determines how fast a car goes. Formula 1 cars have around 800 hp with just around 200 ft lbs of torque and they focus on extracting every bit of power by improving the rev limit, even at the cost of losing torque. You only need tons of torque if you have a heavy car or if you want to tow stuff. Take a bulldozer or a tank as an example. I don't care if it has 2000 ft lbs of torque!
Another thing is the concept of multiplication of torque through gear ratios. Do I need to tell you that the car in 2st gear will have much more acceleration than the car in 5th gear? Why is that you say? Well gear ratios multiply torque. That's why we have different gears! In other words, a high torque car can be slower than a light car with proper gear ratios and high horsepower. So enough of the torque obsession!
Why did the engineers choose a V8? Why did the S2000 engineers, for example, choose a 4 cylinder when they could've gone with a bigger engine? The answer is that they chose the V8 as an easy route for big power and that the other engineers stuck with the lightweight and compact 2.0 liter inline 4, allowing them to not only have the lightest engine possible with minimal inertia, but to mount it entirely behind the front axle, making the car a mid-engine roadster while still squeezing out 250 horsepower.
Ok now, as we are all aware of, road racing is all about the corners. There is a way to truly compare. Detune that ZR1 to 250 hp and let's see if the S2000 (Again just for this example) or the ZR1 will be faster on the Nurburgring. The fact is clear that V8s focus on power. Sure they can be VERY fast on the track, but if you were to engineer a car from scratch, extracting the highest power you can out of the lightest engine possible is the ideal route, instead of thinking "Oh hey let's just simply add more cylinders!" Why not have 24 freakin cylinders then?
These are all track videos from people I know back in LA. They're VERY fast and no slower than professionals, if not faster. This is also proof that it's all about the turns and that horsepower comes second. 4 cylinder cars keep up with and pass V8s like nothing every day.
Emilio breaks 2:00 with his 158 whp Miata on Buttonwillow 13! (1:58 best lap)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_5Xk8xBrqM
Carles Ng driving his Alvaka/949Racing C5 Z06 on Buttonwillow 13 (RWD Modified Class 1st place. 1:56 best lap)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ejcySX0JTc
Manly Kao of trackhq.com driving his Lotus Elise on Buttonwillow 13 (RWD Street Class 1st place. 1:58 best lap)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPQSMRDJ898
Tim Kuo driving the Sport Car Motion Civic on Buttonwillow 13 (FWD Modified Class 1st place. 1:55 best lap)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw84VuetW_0
Here are some videos of my friend Jack. He's the record holder for a bone stock S2000 on SOWS CW at 1:30.33!
Jack driving his AP2 on Button ... d Class. 2:01 best lap)
Jack going downhill on GMR
And it seems like you are another drag racer, so have you ever thought about how much more hardcore road racing (real racing) is? The G forces experienced under braking and cornering far exceeds that of any straight line acceleration. It doesn't matter how fast a car is because even a 1000 hp car would be more exciting and rewarding on a real race track than a drag strip. Straight line performance is just part of road racing. It's like seeing who can jump higher vs basketball.
There I said it. Sorry for being so harsh but I have seen too many people all over the internet bashing on anything that's not a V8 as if they know what they're talking about (I'm kind of letting it all out on them too, so don't take all this too personally). Normally I don't get into this debate over engines and cars, and I believe that any car can be suitable for the track, because I believe racing (on a road course) is all about the driver. Which brings up another point on how lower powered cars (or cars with just the right amount of power) are best suited for training the race driver due to the bigger penalties in mistakes (harder to use power to mask over and catch up your lost speed), and the importance in watching your entry speed and car's momentum. Momentum cars make fast drivers!
Then there are people who think more power is always better. For drag racing yes. But for road racing, it's all about finding the power that best suits the chassis, suspension, weight, and almost every other aspect of the car! Power, as with any other aspect of a car's setup, should be adjusted accordingly. Would you run a car with 90 degrees negative camber (because more negative is better)? Or would you drive a car with a welded differential on the race track because it's always 100% locked up? Or would you drive a car with 10 wheels on the race track because more wheels mean more traction? Or drive a car with solid suspension (as in no travel at all) because stiffer is better? NO!!! It's just plainly dumb! I hope you get my point.
By the way I do respect you and your work and all V8s and all cars. But I just want people to know the science and facts behind what they're talking about. Sure the fact is V8s usually have more power and sound mean, but there's a bigger picture, especially in the racing world. That is all.
We should make an LFS Forum S2000 meeting at the ring someday.
Or an entire LFS forum meet at the Ring 
Lol most people wouldn't turn up.
I have no car. 
:P
:PHow about 170hp from a 16 valve 2.0 4 cylinder?
No mods apart from an open air filter, which probably gave it around 2hp.
No mods apart from an open air filter, which probably gave it around 2hp.
It's loosing 58hp on the drivetrain?! 
EDIT: Outside temperature of 11,8 and oil temperature of 11 degrees? Were you trying to kill the engine? :P
EDIT: Outside temperature of 11,8 and oil temperature of 11 degrees? Were you trying to kill the engine? :P
Ok, my dads previous car was a Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L V8 from 1998 (best Jeep ever!), it only had ~240hp BUT it had around 500Nm of torque.
It weighed over 2000kg and it still could do 0-100 kph in around 6.2 sec* and went a little over 200kmh, try that with a four cylinder in a 2000kg car.
Even on the top gear site it says that it handles like a sports car. :rolleyes:
*6.8-7.1 is the official time because of the full time 4wd, which makes it slower.
It's 245hp and 468NM. I highly doubt the 6.2 seconds from 0-60. Even if permanent AWD would make a big difference in acceleration, it wouldn't be as much as almost a second (one second less is A LOT when it comes to acceleration).
And i'm sure it handles like a sportscar...
Only in a jeep.
PS: The 4 cylinder engine of my 944 turbo had 300hp and 400NM torque, go figure.
And i'm sure it handles like a sportscar...
Only in a jeep.
PS: The 4 cylinder engine of my 944 turbo had 300hp and 400NM torque, go figure.
I am sure the 6.2 sec was done in cold conditions and with 2wd, you may not believe it but that car was a real beast and surely capable of such time.
I have experienced it in real life so. :P
Here is a video to prove it, it is bone stock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... EO8Og&feature=related
This one does 0-100 kph in 7 sec as you can see in the vid.
If you still don't believe go shoot yourself.
I have experienced it in real life so. :P
Here is a video to prove it, it is bone stock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... EO8Og&feature=related
This one does 0-100 kph in 7 sec as you can see in the vid.
If you still don't believe go shoot yourself.
And your real life experience (judging acceleration by feeling) is worth anything? It isn't, right, because it's only an assumption based on how it feels.
I'll say it again, 7 seconds is not 6.2 seconds, and there is a big gap inbetween there.
And i guess your response of "if you... blabla... go shoot yourself" means that you don't have anymore facts on the matter?
I'll say it again, 7 seconds is not 6.2 seconds, and there is a big gap inbetween there.
And i guess your response of "if you... blabla... go shoot yourself" means that you don't have anymore facts on the matter?
Yes i experienced it in real life, we went after a range rover with black stickers to cover it (prototype or something) on the german autobahn with speeds over 200kmh.
Ok then ~7 sec, you think thats slow for a 2000kg car with only 240 hp?
Ok then ~7 sec, you think thats slow for a 2000kg car with only 240 hp?
That's my completely stock '94 Golf GT TDI
1,9 turbodiesel, 90hp, crapload of torque.
It even has Recaro seats :shhh:
Arguing about American vs. European engines is completely pointless.
I'm all for Euros, I would love to own a ie. mk1 Escort with "little" N/A 4-pot 1600 high revving engine making 200+ bhp. This Escort would also be mad fast around corners.
But, I really would love to someday own a old 60's or 70's US muscle car with massive big pushrod V8 making simply awesome amount of bhp, with idle as stable as the breathing of an old cancer patient. Oh this would have mad wide slicks in back and wouldn't really corner.
Oh BTW I don't care about mpg or economy side of things.
The both worlds have their advantages and disadvantages.
Lets just say they are engines.
I'm all for Euros, I would love to own a ie. mk1 Escort with "little" N/A 4-pot 1600 high revving engine making 200+ bhp. This Escort would also be mad fast around corners.
But, I really would love to someday own a old 60's or 70's US muscle car with massive big pushrod V8 making simply awesome amount of bhp, with idle as stable as the breathing of an old cancer patient. Oh this would have mad wide slicks in back and wouldn't really corner.
Oh BTW I don't care about mpg or economy side of things.
The both worlds have their advantages and disadvantages.
Lets just say they are engines.
The 2007 (or was it 2008 can't remember), the Grand Cherokee was Autocar "worst car of the year". I doubt a 10 year old car would be any better..
We all know you have sexy time with Jeeps, it's no secret.
200kmph is only like what, 115? Nothing special.. 1.6 Mini one will do that.
It can do almost 220kmh, and that in a car with the aerodynamics of a cow.
Yes the new jeep sucks because its manufactured together with Mercedes, it now has independent suspension which sucks for offroad trail riding.
It might be the worst car because they arent very reliable, which is a fact but it doesnt make it a bad car for me.
Jeep SRT8 though is a great machine, 6.1L V8 HEMI with 425hp.
117 is in a 1.4
done just under 130 before i got the gears done ( was geared for 144 as far as my memory serves me )
110 in a jeep is fast. considering how high you are, in an American jeep... yeah... limit them to 75 imho.
Puuh-lease, 1L Yaris is good for 117mph according to the manual
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