im quite surprised that this thread hasnt been locked yet

Jamie I beat you

I've been around Zolder in a Cosworth powered Donkervoort.

Quote from tristancliffe :

The bits where you tried to discuss the merits of engine layouts, but completely misunderstood stroke lengths.

You're right, that's something I've never really looked into, hence why I barely touched the subject. I think BAMBO is the one who was talking about that stuff.

Quote from tristancliffe :

How both of you are comparing cars, yet don't understand what you are trying to compare (re: torque/power curves).

I thought I explained it pretty clearly from my end; not sure where you're saying I went wrong. I'm curious to see what I messed up; always eager to learn .

Quote from tristancliffe :

...and when both use approximations and then say approximations are bad (it's not a 5.4, it's a 5.0; it does rev over 5.5k, I took it to 6 once; etc).

306ci (a 302 bored .030 over) is actually 5.0L. The stock 302ci is 4.9xxL. Also, saying that an engine can go over 6k isn't an approximation if you've actually done it on a regular basis (and that's talking about my dad's 385ci...on a funny note, during the 2nd test drive, the first time dad got to drive the tbird with the 306, he was late on the 1-2 shift and did accidentally take it to 6k hahaha. But that's waaaaay out of the car's power band so I never take it that high. 5500 is its redline.)

Quote from tristancliffe :

When either of you use phrases like "Properly Sorted Chassis" without having the first idea what it means.

I don't recall using that phrase...I was the one telling S14 that the tires helped my car's handling a lot.

Quote from tristancliffe :

When James says tyres only improve grip, not handling (despite claiming the exact opposite in the motorbikes thread, where he also demonstrated his extreme ignorance of all things technical).

Haha now that's funny. I really didn't feel like fighting much over handling since that's an area I don't know a whole lot about yet. I plan to very soon though .

Quote from tristancliffe :

Phrases like "Pure Power".

Haha yeah, hence why my reply to that was a sigh

Quote from tristancliffe :

James demonstrating he's never been in an American car by commenting on the interior build quality of 'most of them'.

Thank you! Glad I'm not the only one that caught that.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Relying on silly image links or schoolgirl stuff like "GTFO" as a retort (James did that in the other thread too).

Yeah...and I do apologize for being a bit heated at first in this thread, but for the last few pages I've been doing my best to stick to the argument.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Fast acceleration, eh? I never knew speed could be used to quantify the rate of change of speed.

Care to go into this a little more? I thought acceleration was the rate of speed increase. Unless you're trying to get at something totally different, but I have a KILLER headache right now .

Quote from tristancliffe :

Using Chassis Sharing as an example of crapness, whilst forgetting that the Europeans do it even more...

Yeah I was wondering about that...forgot to look it up.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Claiming that American engines are rubbish because of a rolling road readout, yet totally failing to understand what he's trying to compare...

Agreed totally.

On that note, I'm pretty much done with the argumentative part of this...but some more intelligent discussion about engines is more than welcome.

Quote from kingcars :

Care to go into this a little more? I thought acceleration was the rate of speed increase. Unless you're trying to get at something totally different, but I have a KILLER headache right now .

You can have high acceleration, or large acceleration - high and large are quantitative adjectives (there's probably a technical term too!).

Fast acceleration is like saying a long speed or a sound loudness... You can't measure acceleration using the number speed. You can't have 10mph acceleration.

And I don't think it was you that used the phrase either (or properly sorted chassis, or pure power), so don't worry.

Quote from kingcars :

You're right, that's something I've never really looked into, hence why I barely touched the subject. I think BAMBO is the one who was talking about that stuff.

And that's why you've pretty much missed my point, twice! The thing is you are attributing low-end torque to your engine due to it's layout (being a V8) when in fact it's due to your engine being undersquare.

Quote from kingcars :

You're trying to tell me that going from ~185whp (the stock 5.0 that was in my car) to ~255whp (306) doesn't yield any acceleration difference? rofl

I did not say that.

Quote :

That's a 21% drivetrain loss, definitely not unheard of (505/638 = 0.79). The S2000 dyno chart that I previously posted shows 193rwhp at peak. Divide that by 240 and you get 0.8. That's a 20% drivetrain loss. Also, just for fun, lets account for a 20% drivetrain loss on my 240rwhp dyno sheet. The answer is 288bhp. So what was that about me trying to make my engine seem more powerful, when in fact, the numbers are one in the same?

Because every time you say "oh it's got 225rwhp but it's actually got 290"

Noo.

Quote :

Some mileage is good for hp, but you don't seriously think that an engine is running at optimum power after 155,000 miles, do you? It really differs from case to case, honestly. Some cars will lose compression, others wont...stuff like that. Just depends.

I have no reason to doubt why a well maintained and reliable (should one every slip through) engine wouldn't be just as healthy at 15k as it is at 155k!

Quote :

Too bad VTEC doesn't provide any torque.

Japanese people aren't fat.

Quote :

2-3 tenths of a second is a door to door race and can be easily be affected by a slightly bad shift, altitude difference, weather conditions, etc. Lots of variables; so like I said, the winner of such a race will vary.

Fact is that the Mustang is SLOWER. Even at worst it'll be a relative tie. So much for you "leaving them standing"!

Quote :

Nope, don't have to. It feels better every time it annihilates a snobby hotshot driving a 4cyl.

Fail to think you're a snobby hotshot driving a V8?

Quote :

The 14.6 was with the stock 5.0. After the so called "boltons" (since when are things such as forged pistons considered boltons, anyway?), my car is set up to lay waste to the aforementioned 2 litre convertable for FAR less money and without that extra 20 years of technology advancement. How pathetic.

It's slower than a 2L 4cyl. g

Quote :

And btw, I didn't get my setup from a magazine, I got it from the experience of tried and true combinations - combos used very often in the real world, not in magazine tests.

You mean your Dad.


Tristan you know my actual name, so stop being quite so ignorant, shall we? At least refer to me with a modicome of respect. TY!

And Tristan, for motorcycles when you have 2 contact patches, the quality of those contact patches are MORE IMPORTANT. As I said to you I have upgraded the suspension on my bike and found it to be much better than an equivalent bike on the same tyres. Would I say OUTRIGHT grip was improved? No, because after all on a smooth piece of the road the suspension only compresses and rebounds. You don't have roll or other things to worry about. It was only "bad" before for once I knew what I was talking about. Pains you to admit that eh?! And I am aware that Europeans share chassis. Sliight difference is they don't share rubbish ones.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

And Tristan, for motorcycles when you have 2 contact patches, the quality of those contact patches are MORE IMPORTANT. As I said to you I have upgraded the suspension on my bike and found it to be much better than an equivalent bike on the same tyres. Would I say OUTRIGHT grip was improved? No, because after all on a smooth piece of the road the suspension only compresses and rebounds. You don't have roll or other things to worry about. It was only "bad" before for once I knew what I was talking about. Pains you to admit that eh?! And I am aware that Europeans share chassis. Sliight difference is they don't share rubbish ones.

Congrats! I reckon you've started an off topic discussion which will get this topic closed!

Quote from BAMBO :

Congrats! I reckon you've started an off topic discussion which will get this topic closed!

Yay.

See what I mean kingfang - he knows so little (including about motorbikes) it's laughable.

Using the 'you mean your dad' line doesn't hide your jealously that he (with or without his dad) can do things you (with or without your dad) can't.

And that's the last straw, this thread is officially going down! Although may I ask why did you had to bring this subject back again kingcars? It's pretty obvious that if you can't solve your differences in one thread, you won't be able to do in no matter how many following threads. Same to you S14, don't bring the bike discussions back since it's the same thing, you won't achieve nothing.

Keep it open. It's funny.

Barely enough room to move though...

Quote from tristancliffe :

See what I mean kingfang - he knows so little (including about motorbikes) it's laughable.

Using the 'you mean your dad' line doesn't hide your jealously that he (with or without his dad) can do things you (with or without your dad) can't.

It's ok for you to make similar comments to me in another thread? I think double standards. My Dad taught me much of the mechanical things I know, it's amazing what anyone who can read, and that has a Haynes manual to hand can do.



And yup sorry for off-topic. lmaoyoanise

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

My Dad taught me much of the mechanical things I know

Must have taken all of, oh, 3 minutes? Including finding a pen.

And my point just proven!

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

it's amazing what anyone who can read, and that has a Haynes manual to hand can do.

Make a terrible mess usually.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

And my point just proven!

Did you fail to notice you didn't make a point. You were replying to mine.

I was maybe replying to yours. The "point" I was making (should have been more clear) are your constant belitting comments to damn well near enough everyone. And when people don't shut up after you make them, you keep continuing to be intimidating. Having met you I know you're a big softie so I just let you get on with it.

Quote from 5haz :

Make a terrible mess usually.

LOL I laughed thanks

I am indeed a big softie. But I don't really want to be lectured on stuff like engineering by someone who finds that meccano is a struggle. If you want to confuse my words, and a lack of emoticons, daft abbreviations and other childish nonsense, with being intimidating then that's your problem. I'm just telling you how it is. If you don't want to learn, then come clean.

Quote from PLAYAPIMP :

cant you guys fight in Pm's lol

I mean, what's wrong with them discussing in a thread? If you are that annoyed by the damn argument, don't click on the thread. Some people find this argument entertaining.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I am indeed a big softie. But I don't really want to be lectured on stuff like engineering by someone who finds that meccano is a struggle. If you want to confuse my words, and a lack of emoticons, daft abbreviations and other childish nonsense, with being intimidating then that's your problem. I'm just telling you how it is. If you don't want to learn, then come clean.

I'm happy to learn, I love learning. I'm just saying that perhaps, not everyone is always as wrong (although I'll happily say I am in this, because I'm only doing it for a laff, lmao) as you make them out to be.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

(although I'll happily say I am in this, because I'm only doing it for a laff, lmao)

You sure 'bout that? If you have been having a several page argument with huge posts just for a laff, well thats a bit sad is it not?

I'm bored mate, feck all else to do. After like, 2 posts back and forth, after discussing with a friend we both came to the conclusion he obviously thinks V8's are awesome and that there's nothing wrong with American cars whatsoever, so I just argued "for the sake of it". Childish but brought a smile to my face.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Tristan you know my actual name, so stop being quite so ignorant, shall we? At least refer to me with a modicome of respect. TY!

Seems to me that you have proven to have the most amount of ignorance.... Kinda hypocritical eh?

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

he obviously thinks V8's are awesome

Well he's right then.

Quote from 5haz :

Well he's right then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge6YvRdnJ0I

I mean, how could you not like that?