not all teenagers crash their first cars in fact the majority won't ever be in a major accident no matter what car they are driving (at least in the US I don't know what people in the UK are seeing that makes them assume every teenager driver is going to die)

migz if there are factors outside of the control of teenage drivers than it doesn't really matter what you drive, does it?

Quote from flymike91 :

migz if there are factors outside of the control of teenage drivers than it doesn't really matter what you drive, does it?

Well im not a driver so i dont know what dangers there are. But for one, if someone pulled out infront of you on an extremely narrow road with nowhere else then your more likely to slam into the side of that car if you had a more powerful car, as you'll be going faster.

Thats really ass-backward logic, i'm afraid.

Quote from Migz :

Well im not a driver so i dont know what dangers there are. But for one, if someone pulled out infront of you on an extremely narrow road with nowhere else then your more likely to slam into the side of that car if you had a more powerful car, as you'll be going faster.

There are speedlimits in place and they are equal to all, no matter how powerful car you have. Having powerful car doesn't mean that you're allowed to go faster and anyone who thinks like that shouldn't be allowed behind the wheel at all.

Quote from Crommi :

There are speedlimits in place and they are equal to all, no matter how powerful car you have. Having powerful car doesn't mean that you're allowed to go faster and anyone who thinks like that shouldn't be allowed behind the wheel at all.

You don't buy a car with 450bhp to drive at the speedlimit, unless your car just happens to be some sort of Limousine. You buy a Ferrari (Lambo/Aston/Porsche, etc) to drive it in some sort of the manner it's designed to driven in..

Quote from Crommi :

There are speedlimits in place and they are equal to all, no matter how powerful car you have. Having powerful car doesn't mean that you're allowed to go faster and anyone who thinks like that shouldn't be allowed behind the wheel at all.

Well it's not that simple either. A more powerful car still has the edge in terms of acceleration even within the speed limits. A more powerful car, especially RWD, can get out of control at very low speeds with an unexperienced or simply stupid driver behind the wheel, though that's not at all limited to young people. A very powerful car will in almost all situations be a more dangerous car to drive, same goes for underpowered heaps of junk too though.

A beginners car should be a well balanced one, it can be powerful as long as it's controllable, can even be heavy if it's equiped to manage the weight (brakes in particular, some production cars are rather suicidal in that respect).
You get the idea.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

You don't buy a car with 450bhp to drive at the speedlimit, unless your car just happens to be some sort of Limousine. You buy a Ferrari (Lambo/Aston/Porsche, etc) to drive it in some sort of the manner it's designed to driven in..

...in a place suited for that kind of driving, racetrack.

Quote from morpha :

Well it's not that simple either. A more powerful car still has the edge in terms of acceleration even within the speed limits. A more powerful car, especially RWD, can get out of control at very low speeds with an unexperienced or simply stupid driver behind the wheel, though that's not at all limited to young people. A very powerful car will in almost all situations be a more dangerous car to drive, same goes for underpowered heaps of junk too though.

On daily driving, acceleration difference between 100hp and 200hp car is meaningless, neither car will be used to their full potential although latter is probably much nicer to drive due to higher torque. In a city traffic, you'll hardly ever need to use more than half-throttle anyways.

If car gets out of control due to driver's stupidity, is it really car's fault then for doing what driver asked it to do? Things usually get out of control when driver does something without thinking what will be the consequence of that action, simple errors like smashing throttle to the floor in middle of a corner usually results in a spin or understeer of the road and yet those drivers will tell you that; "duude, it just went totally out of control, dunno what happend".

Quote from Crommi :

...in a place suited for that kind of driving, racetrack.

Please, this is the real world...not everything is perfect. If you have a car with 450bhp you're going to let it loose from time to time on the way to work....

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

You don't buy a car with 450bhp to drive at the speedlimit, unless your car just happens to be some sort of Limousine. You buy a Ferrari (Lambo/Aston/Porsche, etc) to drive it in some sort of the manner it's designed to driven in..

If you are buying a car not specifically for use at a track, then you are buying a car for transportation. It matters not if it has 70 hp or 1000 hp, there are traffic laws that you should be abiding by if you are on public roads. It's the same concept of guns.... cars don't kill the driver, the driver kills the driver. You all have already said that you can take your little toy cars and do 70 mph. 70 mph in a toy car is the same as 70 mph in a Ferrari.

If someone pulls out in front of you, who is at fault? Legally the car that pulls out. BUT, you are also at fault because obviously you were not giving driving your undivided attention. How was that car able to pull out and you hit it? Why were you not preparing for a potential accident by driving defensively. You have brakes, why didn't you attempt to use them and slow down to relieve some of the potential for injury? Why were you driving at the speed that someone would think it was safe enough to pull out if it was a narrow road?

A car does what the driver tells it to do. If the driver tells a Ferrari to drive 100 mph, then it is going to do that. As well as if the driver tells a Ferrari to drive 35 mph, it is going to do that also. It comes down to stupidity of the driver, not the car.

One of my biggest pet peeves is reading about an accident in the newspaper and seeing it quoted that speed was the reason for the accident. Speed can't be the reason, the reason is the driver did something stupid.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Please, this is the real world...not everything is perfect. If you have a car with 450bhp you're going to let it loose from time to time on the way to work....

When I just got my licence, I probably would have and occasionally did stupid stuff behind the wheel. But sooner you realise that it's just not you out there and there's nothing cool about taking risks on public roads, better driver you will be.

As I said, this is the real world. Not everyone obeys every law. Don't tell me you've never driven at 60 on a 55mph limit road.. (or more!)

The law is not the last word. People speed...

Oh and having people pull out infront of me, being a motorcyclist, I can most definatly tell you it's 100% their fault for not bloody looking before pulling out in the first place.

Maybe when you're in a situation where someone pulls out of a blind exit and you're travelling along at 40mph and suddenly there's a car 25ft infront of your bumper. You have literally 1 second to swerve, assuming there's nothing coming the other way, and even if you brake it's almost impossible you'll avoid an impact. It's an immovable object. If someone pulls out on you, it's simply not your fault.. Like if someone starts shooting at you, and you get shot, it's your fault for not being able to dodge the incredible force coming straight at you?

Quote from Crommi :

...in a place suited for that kind of driving, racetrack.

Back in the real world, in the UK at least a large number of drivers, and not always just young ones, drive reasonably quickly down back roads. On some of our narrow lanes it can be impossible for even a fast car to reach the national speed limit on considerable stretches, saying everyone just sticks to the speed limit is silly, a 1 litre box and a 911 could both be driven quickly bellow the speed limit and one will obviously cover ground faster and make more of a mess when it goes wrong. Added to that the UK still has quiet but fast back roads that haven't been filled with traffic or speed cameras yet but still offer a good way to get from A to B, I regularly drive from Worcester to Oxford and recently worked out I average 75mph over a stretch of 35miles of fast backroads with slowing down for villages and twisty bits taken into account, it's a far faster and more enjoyable way of traveling than taking a longer route at the same speed down a motorway.

American Engines and Cars, I hope they can see the efficiency of some european models soon ...

lets take the Cavalier:

"While not known for its high RPM power, the LH0 has strong low- and mid-range torque. The 3.1 L engine has retained an excellent reputation for reliability. It was produced until 1994 (1996 for mexican market)and was exported in some models. This engine produced 135 hp (101 kW) and 180 lb·ft (244 N·m) of torque from 1988-1989, then upgraded to 140 hp (104 kW) and 185 lb·ft (251 N·m) of torque"

Well, 3.1 liters for a 140Hp engine ... isn't that pathetic? Ok, reliablilty, but my Renault Safrane carries an (also big) 2.5 5 cilinder doing 170hp (and drove 500.000km with it by now, still going).

Volkswagen builds 1.4 liter engines with 160 hp

Sporty Meganes carry 225+ hp on 2.0 liter engines ...

And my 1.4 GT Turbo from 1988 also does 150+ hp

And all withing 8 liters / 100 km

I don't say US cars/engines are bad, but why are they so HUGE?

lol the Mazda RX8 has a 1.3 litre engine and that produces no less than 190bhp (250bhp top)

But it's a wankel engine, which means it's close to a 2L engine displacement of a normal engine. Plus it consumes fuel like crazy.

Anyway... What was this thread about again?

I'd rather drive a Chevy than a crappy Civic. :hide:

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

I'd rather drive a Chevy than a crappy Civic. :hide:

Hah!

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

I'd rather drive a Chevy than a crappy Civic. :hide:

There you go, real Chevrolet for ya

Id have a civic over that hunk of junk

Quote from Crommi :

There you go, real Chevrolet for ya

Not exactly that one.

That's still boxy korean car with Chevrolet badge on it.

Quote from Crommi :

That's still boxy korean car with Chevrolet badge on it.

And? Looks good. Still, better than a riced up yo yo vtakk Civic.

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

And? Looks good. Still, better than a riced up yo yo vtakk Civic.

I'm pretty sure that any car looks ugly with overdone modifications, having certain badge doesn't make surfboard size rear-winsg look any better.

As for the looks of that particular car, it just isn't interesting or exciting in any way. Styling looks like any 2-4 old hatchback, even with the additional bodykit and larger alloys. But that's common problem with most hatchbacks, trying to fit as much interior space as possible in small frame results, result is just an ugly round shaped object.

You all need to make up your minds over there. First you love the little enclosed lawnmowers when anyone from the US/Canada mentions something that has guts to it and the next day you all make fun of the little glorified lawnmowers.


GM couldn't put feeling in the brakes and steering of their Cavalier, Sunbird, Sunfire, Grand Am, Grand Prix, minivan, Bonneville, Corsica, Beretta, Delta 88, Alero, Century, S10 Blazer, S10 Pickup, full size Blazer, full size pickup, Envoy, or any other GM I've driven (I think that is all), I highly doubt they are going to put anything decent in the Aveo that would make it capable of driving.

I would love to drive a Corvette. I'd love to feel if it has horribly spongy brakes and steering that feels like a bumpercar just like all their other cars.

Chevrolet Aveo was known as Daewoo Kalos from South-Korean company Daewoo Motors which is nowdays owned by GM. Few years back they swapped badges on all models and now they're sold as Chevrolets. They seem to be quite popular because they're really cheap for new cars.

Those cars have probably very little in common with Chevrolets sold in US.