I hardly visit these forums anymore, and whenever I do, it's mostly to get official news concerning Live for Speed.

We all know that the developers are hard at work on updating Live for Speed and creating new content, and this is in no way a plea for them to work harder or faster - they are already doing a fantastic job, and I can say that I surely wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

I do however miss some more official contact with the developer team. I know that all three of them browse the forum frequently and respond to bug reports, suggestions etc. But if you look at the official website, liveforspeed.com, it hasn't been updated since December last year, when the Scirocco was postponed. I could imagine that potential buyers wouldn't exactly be turned on by this lack of information. Furthermore, searching the forums for the developers' replies is a tiresome job to do.

I am not asking for the developers to release screenshots every week or set releasedates for the updates. I am merely asking the developers to write a progress update on the official site every month or other, so that visitors (and the community as well) does not have to blindly hold on to the illusion of the mystic development of Live for Speed.

Thank you.

Been suggested, in topics like "Let's be real.." , "Developer blog?" etc topics.
Scawen has replied to both, and both times told that it won't happend. They don't want to start rumors or speculations, because the mess on forum is unbearable and not looking good either in regard of the forum's "face".

As soon there are updates they will release them, untill then we just have to wait and see.

Much have been told, and can be said, but I don't want to stirr up that dicsussion again.

Prepare for thread closer!

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Seriously, all this stuff has been said before, and no matter whether I (or anyone else for that matter agrees with you) or anyone else agrees with you, it's very unlikely anything will change.

For answer: see "Let's get real..." thread.

Quote from The Very End :

Been suggested, in topics like "Let's be real.." , "Developer blog?" etc topics.
Scawen has replied to both, and both times told that it won't happend. They don't want to start rumors or speculations, because the mess on forum is unbearable and not looking good either in regard of the forum's "face".

As soon there are updates they will release them, untill then we just have to wait and see.

Much have been told, and can be said, but I don't want to stirr up that dicsussion again.

In the hopes that the developers see this thread:

Agreed, the forum is a mess already. But is it not very possible that this is the result of people being underinformed? If there was one official source to which everyone could refer, rumors and speculation would be worthless.

The forum needn't be littered with people speculating when the next update will be released or what it will contain. If the needs for this kind of information were to be satisfied from an official source, perhaps the forum could turn its focus elsewhere and this place would actually be bearable.

Furthermore, I do not see how an official word from the developers could possibly spark rumors. In relation to what I have written above, I would think that it would have quite the opposite effect.

I understand that the devs are now reluctant to provide information regarding the works done (not already included in the game) and the things to come due to some old experience.

However this kind of information keeps the flame alive during periode of famine. Being left alone with just a forum that goes round the same subjects over and over I lost faith and interest in LFS.

The Scirocco has been released here http://www.virtualr.net/need-f ... ift-vw-scirocco-previews/

Uh oh. LFS has now a serious problem. It seems that NFS shift is a copy of LFS from what I heard. EA may kill LFS in a short time.

pmsl

EA are good at mass market games, a niche simular market is not their forte. If they have gone and done it then fair play to them, but I know them well enough to find that very difficult to believe indeed.

I'm assuming therefore, that you are using that old forum scapegoat: teh irony / sarcasm.

Yea we can't complain about devlopment speed... What they are doing is already amazing!
The patch got postponed and now we are waiting it since December!
In a normal situation, devs don't have to say what they are doing as nobody is "waiting for them".
When the whole community is waiting, I think they should tell us what is happening.
Even if it's only telling us "We are working on something we are not sure we can implement in the game"
Oh and Sorry if my English is strange

Looks to me that the gaming industry is killing simulation.
Microsoft sacked the entire Flight Simulator staff, not profitable enough.

LFS niche market will not be interesting enough for EA, there is more money to be made on games like dirt, fuel, etc... arcade racing. Its about how much will your invested dollar churn out, what will your stockholders want you to do. You will not find something as LFS from large developers soon, if ever. And even if that happens, I seriously dont think you will want to be part of the racing community that would be attracted.

Quote from evans :

Agreed, the forum is a mess already.

Slightly unruly at times, but I'm not sure that I'd call it a mess outside of the test patch forum (which mods rarely clean for various reasons) where people are unable to follow simple rules. The mods are being tougher than in the past at present, and hopefully this is starting to be felt outside of the test patch forum - in a good way.

Quote from evans :

But is it not very possible that this is the result of people being underinformed? If there was one official source to which everyone could refer, rumors and speculation would be worthless.

Erm, if you genuinely believe that's how things would go, then I'd be very surprised. History dictates that any little bit of information gets picked to bits, and then the silliness starts. Just look at any of the recent released information for LFS. Now step out of the world of LFS and into the world of any other closed software company that doesn't have a community manager (such as the battlefield heroes team, for instance). Unless the product is nearing a state of completion, or available as a test version, the information wagon doesn't leave the station. The same can be said for a number of open source projects where lead developers working on a new component for X stay quiet, until an initial release is ready, and then they make a big splash on the mailing list/website. Since LFS isn't being developed in the normal way, marketing and distributing information cannot work in the same way as other products.

Quote from evans :

The forum needn't be littered with people speculating when the next update will be released or what it will contain.

I agree, it would be nice. However, even if more information was available, this would be exactly what would happen. Go back through the archives and see what happens every time a little bit of information is leaked from the developers - regardless of whether or not there are time frames, feature promises, or otherwise.

People thrive on gossip, and effectively anything that the developers mention would be treated as such. However, because of how the dev team works you'd likely see news updates which either make no sense (i.e. why is developer X doing Y when developer Q is doing P?), or which mean nothing to the average player.

Perhaps this will help you appreciate the predicament that the development team are in.

I'd absolutely love to point you to the other 3 or 4 threads that we had in the last few months on this alone, but quite frankly I suspect it won't do a damn bit to help explain if it isn't clear now.

Equally I'm also sure that if I don't close this thread I'll get shit for it from the community and the thread will spiral out of control. Again. Yet if I do close it, then I'm having the last post and someone will whine.

Quote from the_angry_angel :

Slightly unruly at times, but I'm not sure that I'd call it a mess outside of the test patch forum (which mods rarely clean for various reasons) where people are unable to follow simple rules. The mods are being tougher than in the past at present, and hopefully this is starting to be felt outside of the test patch forum - in a good way.

I think the extreme level of moderators' presence reflects the state of this forum.

Quote from the_angry_angel :

Erm, if you genuinely believe that's how things would go, then I'd be very surprised. History dictates that any little bit of information gets picked to bits, and then the silliness starts. Just look at any of the recent released information for LFS. Now step out of the world of LFS and into the world of any other closed software company that doesn't have a community manager (such as the battlefield heroes team, for instance). Unless the product is nearing a state of completion, or available as a test version, the information wagon doesn't leave the station. The same can be said for a number of open source projects where lead developers working on a new component for X stay quiet, until an initial release is ready, and then they make a big splash on the mailing list/website. Since LFS isn't being developed in the normal way, marketing and distributing information cannot work in the same way as other products.

Yet again, take a look at iRacing for example. I know that it is being developed in a different way and with a lot more ressources, but the fact that they are constantly letting the community in on what's happening has resulted in a lot less speculation. The community knows what's coming, so there is no need to speculate if the developers are working on a spaceship or whatever. rFactor, on the other hand, has died a slow and silent death. Sure, the community is alive, but this is merely due to the fact that rFactor is so easy to modify - something that Live for Speed does not provide.

Quote from the_angry_angel :

I agree, it would be nice. However, even if more information was available, this would be exactly what would happen. Go back through the archives and see what happens every time a little bit of information is leaked from the developers - regardless of whether or not there are time frames, feature promises, or otherwise.

Could it not be, that this is down to the frequency of the information? If all the community gets is a small report every eight or nine months, then it seems obvious to me that a lot more talking will be done between those reports. If the reports were more regular, perhaps most people would get a more realistic picture of the state of the development of Live for Speed.

Quote from the_angry_angel :

People thrive on gossip, and effectively anything that the developers mention would be treated as such. However, because of how the dev team works you'd likely see news updates which either make no sense (i.e. why is developer X doing Y when developer Q is doing P?), or which mean nothing to the average player.

I think most people can understand the idea that each developer has his own area, and that they are hardly ever working on the same thing. Also, understand that this is not only about what is contained in these reports - it is just as much about confirming to the community that Live for Speed is still very much alive and breathing.

Quote from the_angry_angel :

Perhaps this will help you appreciate the predicament that the development team are in.

I understand that the developers are in a tight situation. But I believe this can be partially traced back to their own handling of this situation. There is a huge amount of expectation in this community - partly because of the official information, partly because of rumors-turned-fact. Measures can be taken, however, to relieve this expectation so that the developers can focus more on developing and less on threads about NOS in the improvements section.

when did the devs release Patch Z?! it feels like AGES ago.

Quote :

Wed, July 2nd, 2008 16:20

Taken from LFS webpage.
So tomorrow it's 1 year since the patch.

Quote from The Very End :

Taken from LFS webpage.
So tomorrow it's 1 year since the patch.

I know the dev team doesn't want to get assimilated or have a thousand people or anything like that, but wouldn't hiring just a couple more guys be reasonable? Or are they really stretching the budget that much?

I just find it annoying the moaners have won. Surely the true lfs users/fans (the one's who really care) should be given progress reports. If the moaners wan't to moan then just ignore them. They are moaning more now from lack of information!

My dad used to say the best bit about getting a new car was the waiting. (the difference being he knew what he was waiting for!)

Quote from MadCat360 :

I know the dev team doesn't want to get assimilated or have a thousand people or anything like that, but wouldn't hiring just a couple more guys be reasonable? Or are they really stretching the budget that much?

It's nothing to do with budget or massive staff levels. They want to work in their little 3 man team. If they could afford another member of staff there still wouldn't be a new member of staff. Why do people find this so hard to understand?

Moaners have not won, sure there are a lot of topics pop'ing up every now and then, but they have not won.
Every opinion about LFS is useable, as long as it's constructive.

Neverthless, let's not start that discussion again. It's also wrong saying 1 year because there has been updates later to that aswell. The latest patch that wasn't a test patch did improve various things for hosts, and that was back in the fall of 08 if I remember correctly.

I think everyone agrees that to have the updates would be good. It would be nice to know what is coming in the future and where the Scavier are taking LFS. However, we as a community as a whole do not cope with getting the information. It causes many many threads on the subjects, people analyse the information too much, speculate on what it all means and where it could lead. All this leads to lots of un-needed threads with lots of false information in causing rumours.

So Information: Good, How the community deals with it: Not so good.

You nailed it sir, well said! And just think if things like this postponding happens, then you can swear there will be at least 10 topics each week about the same subject

I want new information so bad, but I am affraight that due to the actions of the community we will never get information before the patch actually is released.


If people could just moderate themself a little, and do searching and investigating before posting, then things maybe would be different.

Either way, we'll just have to wait and see. I do not agree on that way of working, but that doesn't mean a thing.

And interesting question is however :
Make ruckluss with an announchment of patch or make an ruckluss for beeing sillent?

Quote from The Very End :

You nailed it sir, well said! And just think if things like this postponding happens, then you can swear there will be at least 10 topics each week about the same subject

I want new information so bad, but I am affraight that due to the actions of the community we will never get information before the patch actually is released.


If people could just moderate themself a little, and do searching and investigating before posting, then things maybe would be different.

Either way, we'll just have to wait and see. I do not agree on that way of working, but that doesn't mean a thing.

And interesting question is however :
Make ruckluss with an announchment of patch or make an ruckluss for beeing sillent?

I think several people here are missing my point.

I am not asking the developers to start handing out releasedates left and right, I do not want them to announce a new feature every month, I am not asking them to release screenshots and detailed work reports.
I am asking them to post progress reports - short or long - every other month or so. That does not mean announcing anything new or setting a releasedate - they could just tell us that they are on track and that everything is working fine or whatever.

My text was about that aswell I didn't mean them to give info about releases and such, just what they are working on. But problem would still be the same, the speculations on the forum, and if someone would get postponed people would go apeshit

I'll set up a website that just lists random fake crap if it'll help.

12/06/09: Tested new suspension response with physical forces <5N
26/06/09: Amended line 15037279 hex value to sort suspension response.
01/07/09: Added note on line 904667 to remind me to get a haircut.

Do you feel better now?

:chairfall