....that think the cars handle badly? ive been playing this for a while now and think that the cars spin far too easily, its a great game but for me its spoilt by cars that dont behave like cars and b4 everyone jumps down my throat, in the `80`s i was a rally and autocross driver.

Its because its a simulator, so cars handle like real cars would, not like the arcadey type games that are around that have cars capable of going around a 90 degree corner at 206mph!

It is also highly setup dependant as well, as just tiny things in a set can have huge implications with regard to a cars handling in LFS.

Cougar have you tried all the cars? as Dan has said alot is dependant on setup, the RB4 is great fun, and some would say the most like a "rally car" to drive.

I remember Bob making a realistic setup pack, might be worth a try? EDIT: out of date pack here see bobs sig.

Good luck.

SD.

ive driven enough `real` cars in my life to know that they shouldnt spin when going round a corner at 40mph, i know the game is setup based but its still no excuse for spinning out every time the road goes a different direction.

What controller are you using Cougar?
would it be a RWD car spinning out at 40mph?

SD.

Quote from cougar7005 :

ive driven enough `real` cars in my life to know that they shouldnt spin when going round a corner at 40mph, i know the game is setup based but its still no excuse for spinning out every time the road goes a different direction.

What cars are you experiencing this problem with the most? If its the XRG then it really a bit boat like, plus the default set makes the car overly vague and wallowy IMO.

i think what couger is saying is the way the car feels yes the game is setup based and i have been playing lfs since hex editing did 33 sec blackwood times in the xfg. but its not the car its the tyres they dont feel quite right no matter how the car is setup in the road cars, the race cars with slicks feel alot more like real life track day cars on road tyres then race cars on slicks

if that makes any sense


if anyone has played RBR they will understand that even that game on the dirt feels alot grippyer then lfs road cars do on the road

Quote from MAD3.0LT :

if anyone has played RBR they will understand that even that game on the dirt feels alot grippyer then lfs road cars do on the road

They don't at all.. I personally find LFS tyres very grippy, especially in the rear at the optimal temperature. I have played RBR, and I'll admit I'm really bad at rally driving but I do find LFS a lot more grippy, as it should be.

I shouldn't really talk about cars handling, as I'm such a noob.....did I say that already ?!?!?

Anyway, yesterday I drove all day long with my lovely Raceabout (...in LFS, that is!), and I must say it's definetely not one of the grippiest ones, but I nearly never lost control, and consistently shaved my (louzy) PB on BL1. In my early "LFS days" RAC was just a no-go.

As others have said, it depends very much on setups, but also on understanding and "feeling" the mass of each car, which is not very easily achieved sitting in our armchairs...
It also depends on foot "weight", or pressure. RAC (for example) has its own sweet spot where the accelerator should be for any given turn, otherwise...spin-fest time!

Just something to consider. Of course the original poster has waaaaaay more RL driving experience than me, and I have nothing to teach him.

i guess its just me but i feel the car brakes traction to easy and the slides are to easy to controle in the road cars like when a road car brakes away from grip to slip its alot more sudden in real life i feel. and yes setup is a BIG thing the weight of the steering is allmost perfictly aligned with how heavy a car is in theroy. but i just cant get away from the feel that lfs road cars dont have you stand on edge of your driving limits like the race cars and real life cars do .

maybe i just been playing to long and thats my problem

I find any car in LFS to feel not realistic and be like driving on soap if I haven't driven it much and I'm pushing too hard, but paradoxically I find any car that I do a significant amount of seat time in to be very grippy and realistic in most aspects.

As most state it comes down to the difficulty in getting and correctly interpreting feed back from a sim verses feedback being very obvious in real life. In real life I don't believe you need to do as much seat time in a car to get to a level of being able to do consistent laps without spinning out often or crashing where as in LFS it takes longer as the feedback you receive as to what the car is doing is not as obvious as in real life.

After having done many many laps on a combo it feels very close to real life to me in how grip behaves, I think you just become much more aware of the grip.

Post a replay so we can see what you are doing to make the car spin so easily. All the cars have (slightly) too much grip in LFS.

Quote from Glenn67 :

I find any car in LFS to feel not realistic and be like driving on soap if I haven't driven it much and I'm pushing too hard, but paradoxically I find any car that I do a significant amount of seat time in to be very grippy and realistic in most aspects.

Yeah, I think that happens to everyone. I attribute it to the differences in physics IRL and in LFS, which means that a new LFS car will feel strange to begin with. When you get used to this, you get used to the small differences also and it feels quite right.
Perhaps this effect is exaggerated by not sensing anything in the car, you can only see and (possibly) feel your wheel. Analyzing this is a science in itself, huh

What controler are you using ?
Seeing your replay will be good.

sorry for the late reply but ive had a terminal overheated pc to repair and being unemployed means its took a bit longer to do. the wheel im using is a saitek r220 which whilst not being very good works and is all i can afford .

Glad you fixed your PC

To get that "realistic feel" you really need to use a force feedback wheel the R220 is fairly low end but should be usable none the less, I would reccommend recalibrating your controller in LFS (options/controllers/ axis/ff then click recalibrate, push both pedals a few times and move wheel lock to lock.
Then click lock.

It might help if you can see your inputs (pedals and steering) better just to check you dont have spiking etc (options/display) yes to show pedals and steering gauge, this could highlight any potential issues with the controller.

If you get a chance to try a friends FF wheel something with full FF like a Logitech momo, or G25 wheel, you can really start to feel the road as you drive, it really helps.

When driving try using the 5 & 6 keys to adjust FOV so everything looks (the speed feeling) correct to you, and < & > to adjust FF on the fly if & when you get a FF wheel.

Good luck

SD.

Quote from cougar7005 :

ive driven enough `real` cars in my life to know that they shouldnt spin when going round a corner at 40mph, i know the game is setup based but its still no excuse for spinning out every time the road goes a different direction.

it's to do with the lack of feel and connection with the game, in a car u are a lot more aware of its situation and u can react quicker. in the game, it takes the car to actually begin the spin to realise it's spinning.

to me all the cars in lfs,with the exeption of the xrg and xrg turbo,are very grippy.i really dont know what your talking about.It is 99% your wheel.

Thats just it... cars feel TOO grippy.

To be honest here are some problems

-Cars don't feel heavy
This is a big problem. We're dealing with a large weight here. Why do i feel like i'm driving a matchbox car? This might be graphical, probably more visual/physics. I don't know what it is... They just feel light weight sometimes... > > Really only a few actually seem "heavy"

-Cars are too grippy, leading to sliding
This also might not make sense... but too much grip can lead to sliding. We call this "Over-steer". Last time I checked, driving a road-type car going 40 around a corner turning a wheel half way (> > Trust me.. it's half-way) is actually normal to drive just a 45 degree turn (at least in my buick) There is no reason i should be having to drive at 103 miles an hour to get the same effect. ._. Again, i'll do some videos to show my point when I find a place to go 103 in a Buick Century.... > > I've driven a few of my friends cars to learn that... most cars drive remotely similar.... at 40mph.

-Car spin outs?
Due to this extra grip, cars tend to just.. SPIN, rather than slide. On rare occasions do i just "slide". Usually i do like 5 spins then hit a wall. If thats normal then obviously television racing series arn't doing it right.
> > It's a lot of weight, moving from one side to another. If anything i'd at least expect more flips than spins going downhill on City. I mean, sure you can turn the wheel and probably change the angle, but slightly, as you also have the rear wheel stuck in it's place, thus not allowing too much movement while sideways.

-Momentum?
Another thing that should be added to say is that momentum generally challenges grip. Is it just me, or does sometimes when going around a corner at a pretty easy pace does the car just want to seem to spin in circles? Cars have always seemed way to loose (Which is one thing i DO like in rFactor.. they don't always seem loose.. just a bit too tight and unrealistic) It's odd how I can drive a Buick Century (without STRUTS on the rear suspension... thats right.. =) I live dangerously) and bad tires in the snow going 45 and still be able to take turns better than i can on this game.... o.O And yes... ._. i did have a few close calls... with a stop sign, a lightpole, and spinning... but i was still able to control it better than LFS. =/ (And i use a momo ._. tyvm)

i thought my wheel would get most of the blame , now bearing in mind i have a budget smaller than a small thing whats a worthwhile buy in the cheap force feedback wheel range, and no silly comments about g25`s lol.

Quote from Arsenic_Fox :

-Cars don't feel heavy
This is a big problem. We're dealing with a large weight here. Why do i feel like i'm driving a matchbox car? This might be graphical, probably more visual/physics. I don't know what it is... They just feel light weight sometimes... > > Really only a few actually seem "heavy"

The 'weight' of the car in real life is implied by the acceleration and rate of change of acceleration of the vehicle (which you can't feel in LFS), combined with the roll of the vehicle (which you can't feel in LFS), lots of other factors (some/most/all of which you can't feel in LFS), plus the fact you know how heavy the car is, so your brain makes it feel right. As we're not in the car, and the car doesn't actually exist, making it feel heavy is difficult. However, if you look at the telemetry and watch replays you'll see that LFS cars have the correct amount of mass, and behave as such.

Quote from Arsenic_Fox :

-Cars are too grippy, leading to sliding
This also might not make sense... but too much grip can lead to sliding. We call this "Over-steer". Last time I checked, driving a road-type car going 40 around a corner turning a wheel half way (> > Trust me.. it's half-way) is actually normal to drive just a 45 degree turn (at least in my buick) There is no reason i should be having to drive at 103 miles an hour to get the same effect. ._. Again, i'll do some videos to show my point when I find a place to go 103 in a Buick Century.... > > I've driven a few of my friends cars to learn that... most cars drive remotely similar.... at 40mph.

You what? You think oversteer is caused by too much grip? If that is your understanding then I don't think you'll ever get on in a simulation. Oversteer is caused by too little grip at the back (for a multitude of reasons), not excessive grip at the front. And I don't believe that's a matter for semantics either.
Are you suggesting that the cars should spin at 40mph, but in LFS they need to do 100 to do the same. Have you compared lateral g's and tyre loadings?

Quote from Arsenic_Fox :

Car spin outs?
Due to this extra grip, cars tend to just.. SPIN, rather than slide. On rare occasions do i just "slide". Usually i do like 5 spins then hit a wall. If thats normal then obviously television racing series arn't doing it right.

Gosh, you really don't understand tyres, do you?

Quote from Arsenic_Fox :

It's a lot of weight, moving from one side to another. If anything i'd at least expect more flips than spins going downhill on City. I mean, sure you can turn the wheel and probably change the angle, but slightly, as you also have the rear wheel stuck in it's place, thus not allowing too much movement while sideways.

And you don't understand load transfer either, do you?

Quote from Arsenic_Fox :

Momentum?
Another thing that should be added to say is that momentum generally challenges grip. Is it just me, or does sometimes when going around a corner at a pretty easy pace does the car just want to seem to spin in circles? Cars have always seemed way to loose (Which is one thing i DO like in rFactor.. they don't always seem loose.. just a bit too tight and unrealistic) It's odd how I can drive a Buick Century (without STRUTS on the rear suspension... thats right.. =) I live dangerously) and bad tires in the snow going 45 and still be able to take turns better than i can on this game.... o.O And yes... ._. i did have a few close calls... with a stop sign, a lightpole, and spinning... but i was still able to control it better than LFS. =/ (And i use a momo ._. tyvm)

Yes, momentum is fighting you. It's why you have to press the pedals and turn the wheels to make it go around a circuit. But momentum has little to do with the balance of the car.

Your Buick must be one strange handling vehicle...

I don't know if you ever get up early at the weekends but bootfairs can be a great way to find a bargain, I have had many different wheels in the past 10-15 years I still have most of them, some now in bits, in my workshop

Keep an eye out for used bargains like the Microsoft Sidewinder FF wheel(fine in XP but no drivers for Vista), the Logitech Momo Force wheel (the red one, awsome wheel) the Logitech Momo Racing Force (the black one) Driving Force GT (PS2 wheel but works with driver download) as long as its USB it should work fine even the Saitek Force R440 was a great wheel in the serial port days the newer USB version looks kinda alien but if the internal HW is the same as the earlyer version it will work well.

Obviously when buying used look out for signs of damage and overuse, but often cables can be replaced with relative ease and maybe some soldering skills, I've seen good looking wheels going for £5 - £30 at bootfairs.
Ebay is a little more expensive and you dont get to inspect the item like in person, but you can always ask the seller a question or 3


Good luck, proper ForceFeedback wheel will bring the best out of the sim/game, as LFS has some of, if not the best FF code in the industry.

SD.

thanks or the advice, one other thing ive sort of just noticed is the throttle pedal is just an on/off switch ive been trying to just feather the throttle around corners then gradually increase coming out of the turn, slow in fast out kind of technique, thing is as soon as i touch the pedal, kaboom full throttle spin spin spin is there anyway to adjust this or is it something im stuck with? ive been looking at some wheels that are ps2/ps3/360 compatible but have never wanted to commit to buying one incase it doesnt work. is there a list of compatible wheels anywhere on the site?

Maybe recalibrating your pedals could fix it, but maybe they just have much shorter travel than you're used to. Another thing what could be causing difficulties is that engine inertia doesn't really feel right, tonight I fired up LFS for the first time in months and especially with RaceAbout I noticed complete lack of engine braking; put it in first gear and accelerate up to limiter, release throttle and don't touch brake or clutch... it will keep going for very long time before it stops.

As for wheels, I believe Logitech DFGT works fine on PC even if it's PS3 wheel.

What current method do you use to play LFS. I looked, but couldn't see if you are KB/Mouse/Pad or what not.
edit: saitek r220 - sorry.

edit: ignor this....
If you want smoother control of your accelerate/brake then using a button is not going to be optimal. Imagine driving a real car with a button for accelerate and brake?

Try increasing the button control rate amount to get a smoother accelerate/brake effect. You find that in Options || Controls || Button Control Rate
Try something like 10.0

You could try assigning the right stick up/down axis (if you have a dual stick game pad) to accelerate/brake until you decide to get a wheel.