Quote from The Very End :

That's why I liked him.

I have to agree, he was quiet unique, and reading his posts was rather.... amusing ^^... let's go to IL2 forum and invite him to LFS forum again .

Quote from Matrixi :

Reading some of the posts in this thread makes me realise how easy it really was for Scawen to make this religious following put all the blame and hatred on the moaners/bored people instead of the actual lack of development/progress news.

Yes, it's sort of funny in a wicked way. You see members of this cult routinely put together lengthy posts that would almost make sense if for a moment you would forget about some absurdities that lie at the core of the whole thing.

But someone was mean enough to put most of their arguments in the LFSforum bingo, and turned the whole thing into a joke. It was an evil move but maybe for a greater good

Quote from Byku :

I have to agree, he was quiet unique, and reading his posts was rather.... amusing ^^... let's go to IL2 forum and invite him to LFS forum again .

Please, let's not.

Quote from Gil07 :

I wish people would stop talking about patches and development speed, and talk about what the point of this thread was since the beginning. Communication (or lack of it).

Thank you.

Much has apparently been said about the developers way of working, their speed, the patches and features in this thread. This is not what it is about.
Several people have commented the way the developers work, and that they do not want to change it - that's fine. This isn't about making them change their way of working, however. Asking them to communicate with their community - and not the forum - every once in a while is not asking them to change the way they work. It's pretty simple PR.

The reason people keep bringing the work ethic thing into it, is because the whole no news thing is part of the way they work, news use to be posted more at the beginning of development when changes were moving at a faster pace, LFS has grown over a long time and yes updates will be smaller or longer apart.
Before this VW patch info in Dec last year, we would only be told news if it was definately gong to happen, maybe with the exception of a few things (LX8 etc) but after the uproar here in the forums all the constant "where is my VW shiroko" posts that we saw through this year, I think it became clear that giving news of an expected feature was counter productive to the devs and comunity, unless that feature was 100% complete or could be delivered.

I personally dont mind not getting communication here or at lfs.net
News will come when it comes and I'm happy to wait until news comes.

SD.

Quote from SparkyDave :

The reason people keep bringing the work ethic thing into it, is because the whole no news thing is part of the way they work, news use to be posted more at the beginning of development when changes were moving at a faster pace, LFS has grown over a long time and yes updates will be smaller or longer apart.
Before this VW patch info in Dec last year, we would only be told news if it was definately gong to happen, maybe with the exception of a few things (LX8 etc) but after the uproar here in the forums all the constant "where is my VW shiroko" posts that we saw through this year, I think it became clear that giving news of an expected feature was counter productive to the devs and comunity, unless that feature was 100% complete or could be delivered.

I personally dont mind not getting communication here or at lfs.net
News will come when it comes and I'm happy to wait until news comes.

SD.

Communication and news are two different things.

Let me give a short example of what the communication could be:

"Scawen is progressing with feature X and is currently working on getting this or that to work properly. Eric has been reworking South City with huge banners featuring naked girls, so everyone has something to look at while racing. Everything is good and the world is at peace. Love, Devs."

Obviously, posting reports like these every single week would make them trivial and unimportant, but if they wrote a small report every other month, nobody would be questioning the vital signs of Live for Speed.

Quote from evans :

"Scawen is progressing with feature X and is currently working on getting this or that to work properly. Eric has been reworking South City with huge banners featuring naked girls, so everyone has something to look at while racing. Everything is good and the world is at peace. Love, Devs."

ahm, we exactly had that with the scirocco. scawen announced on what he was working and told us when he hoped to release it. look what happend.

if he says he's on feature X it will become a "we'll get feature X with the next patch, he promised so" and people will start complaining again why it only this feature and when lfs will support klingon. it just doesn't work.

Quote from evans :

Obviously, posting reports like these every single week would make them trivial and unimportant, but if they wrote a small report every other month, nobody would be questioning the vital signs of Live for Speed.

Maybe not but wouldn't people then be questioning why eric is not updating interiors, or why Scawen isn't working on a different feature? I think its pretty obvious why that kind of "twitter/tweet" communication will never happen, because it makes the Devs too accountable, and I think if it did happen we would end up getting "we are continuing to develop LFS" every time and we already know that

I think they just work at their own pace, head down so to speak, if they need help from the comunity they ask, like when the queue system was introduced Scawen asked for lots of people to join him in a test server, it was full in no time

News can be communication also

SD.

Quote from SparkyDave :

I think it became clear that giving news of an expected feature was counter productive to the devs and comunity, unless that feature was 100% complete or could be delivered.

That's only a part of the story. The problem in all this, was giving a release date, which wasn't met. Nothing else was given except that release date, no info on other progress in the upcoming patch. As has been said many times before, a release date does not equal a progress report.

And as far as I have seen, this forum took the release date miss fairly well, comparing to what might have happened on other gaming forums. The amount of moaning and whining was minimal in the beginning, then it started getting gradually worse as the months passed without a peep from the dev(s). I think some this moaning could have been easily avoided with the correct antidote; some development news during these 6 months.

The denying of further progress reports because of moaning and whining sounds fishy to say the least. It feels like an excuse to avoid any possible negativity from the community, but with the wrong methods, if I may so put it. This chosen method is what most certainly will bring the negativity out, if not immediately, but definately in the long run.

And for the OP, well, you are basically asking them to change they work to be honest, even if it isn't your direct intention. Writing dev news is part of the PR, which is a part of the whole work. Therefore I very much doubt we will see any change in this situation, knowing the style of scavier.

Edit: As what goes for the near future, I know Scawen isn't the type of person to bullsh*t the community. If he says we will get good releases this year, I truly believe that will happen. The time before we get there could be a bit more pleasant though.

Quote from SparkyDave :

after the uproar here in the forums all the constant "where is my VW shiroko" posts that we saw through this year...

I think that this is a bit of a myth. When you pit it in to perspective, the 'uproar' was a relatively small number of threads & posts by a tiny section of the community, most of whom the majority of the community could not care less about.

I don't quite understand why this phenomenon could not be handled by board moderation (the mods here are more than capable IMO), but instead it put a stop to all communications by the devs, aside from a very rare and informal posts in the depths of an existing thread.

The way I see it is with most upcoming games or game release /updates there is info what will be happeing or some rendering of what will on offer.

Now also they have sold a product poeple have bought & liked it . They say they are going to update it & don't . Customers get pissed start looking elsewhere at other products & take up whats on offer & may get hooked on that is there is more development by developer or users are able to develop there own mods which keep the longengevity of the game .

We see neither here LFS is becoming stale as far as we know the devs could be in the Cayman Is sucking on a Long Island Tea & not giving a shit about development of the game . Thye also don't allow users to develop there own tracks & cars .So there is no development at any end of the game as to what could be possibly happening .

Its poor marketing /developing /communicating on there behalf .Unless they bring something out soon semi significant they will lose out to current/upcoming games GTR series , Rfactor & upcomng RFactor 2 ,I-Racing ,GT5 ,Shift & Forza3 .
Games need Longengevity & Continued developlment on some sort of level for continued sataisfaction for end users us otherwise we take our money & late nights somewhere else.

You're either a trolling side-account of an existing member or you're really new and haven't read a single post in this thread... None of your points are valid nor true, and have been proven false many times in this and other threads... And I'd like you to show me developers who are engaging themselves in their community (not news sites) as much as Scavier...

To be an ****, yes, take a look on anarchy online's forum, the devs posts at least 10-20 posts each day, and have a weekly letter
But again, canot be compared but there are lot of gaming forums with community corner, where developers write weekly letters.

Check BiS ArmA 2 forum, there is a developer posting frequently on it. Scawen is posting information... but You have to search his posts to find it... and that's a little mistake, couse some poeple don't bother to search. Scawen could(and it WOULD be nice) post more infos on the main site, but for me it is irrelevant. There are going to be updates this year, and that's all that matters for me . I'm happy playing, and LFS is still a lot of fun(btw. I still remember S1 version , i'm here since 2004, but i wasn't a part of the community then like i am now ).

Quote from farcar :

I think that this is a bit of a myth. When you pit it in to perspective, the 'uproar' was a relatively small number of threads & posts by a tiny section of the community, most of whom the majority of the community could not care less about.

I don't quite understand why this phenomenon could not be handled by board moderation (the mods here are more than capable IMO), but instead it put a stop to all communications by the devs, aside from a very rare and informal posts in the depths of an existing thread.

So for the people who have paid for S2 Liecense they should be they be silenced .Isn'st this forum where we can air out concerns .Majority or Not they cancelled an update we are now well passed early 2009 & no info on how the next update is going .

I enjoy playing LFS but when an update is said to be at a certain arrival time without reason (early 2009 when it has already been piushed back ). A customor has right to ask quetions on where the new updated product is headed & the estimated delivery date . Is that not reasonable question or request ..............................Seriously!!!!

Quote from BigPies :

they cancelled an update

Delayed, not cancelled.

BigPies, you can of course ask any question that doesn't break with the forum rules and expectations. On this forum, there is an expectation on members that they don't spam the forum with irrelevancy and that they demonstrate a willingness to read the threads in which they participate.

So, if you can ask a reasonable question that hasn't been asked and answered interminably before, then I'd say go for it.

Thanks SamH if you wish you can check IP adress with how often I come and view threads/forum which is about 3 - 4 times a week since I puchaesd the game .

Its just seems there is no communication at all between the developers & the people who play the game in relation to updates & future develpment of the game .

Is that really that hard answer a queation ???

Its no about pandering to the needs of Newbies or poeple who are'nt patient or board . Its comon courtese if they have shared in the past why not share the future of the game to keep people intrested in the game .

For example all they would need to say is "Sorry Guys Pushed Back Till the Last 1/4 of this year but these are some of things we have been working on though"

i don't get it

Peace Out
Marten

Sorry for that

But its there Any Progness of that VW car ?

Not yet.

Quote from Matrixi :

That's only a part of the story. The problem in all this, was giving a release date, which wasn't met. Nothing else was given except that release date, no info on other progress in the upcoming patch. As has been said many times before, a release date does not equal a progress report.

And as far as I have seen, this forum took the release date miss fairly well, comparing to what might have happened on other gaming forums. The amount of moaning and whining was minimal in the beginning, then it started getting gradually worse as the months passed without a peep from the dev(s). I think some this moaning could have been easily avoided with the correct antidote; some development news during these 6 months.

The denying of further progress reports because of moaning and whining sounds fishy to say the least. It feels like an excuse to avoid any possible negativity from the community, but with the wrong methods, if I may so put it. This chosen method is what most certainly will bring the negativity out, if not immediately, but definately in the long run.

And for the OP, well, you are basically asking them to change they work to be honest, even if it isn't your direct intention. Writing dev news is part of the PR, which is a part of the whole work. Therefore I very much doubt we will see any change in this situation, knowing the style of scavier.

All he said +1.

Quote from Matrixi :

Edit: As what goes for the near future, I know Scawen isn't the type of person to bullsh*t the community. If he says we will get good releases this year, I truly believe that will happen. The time before we get there could be a bit more pleasant though.

While I don't share the same fideistic view, I do hope he's right, early 2009 is over for everyone now, failing to deliver at least one substantial patch in the next few months, in the current "shut up I'm working" situation will only lead to increased speculation as to what may be happening behind the scenes.

This is not to pressure Scawen (I'm pretty sure he's not reading this post anyway), but merely to point out that a non negligible part of the LFS community, despite not showing up on this forum (and hence not accounted for by the popular vocal minority theory), is only taking the news from Scawen at face value.

Quote from BigPies :

So for the people who have paid for S2 Liecense they should be they be silenced .Isn'st this forum where we can air out concerns .Majority or Not they cancelled an update we are now well passed early 2009 & no info on how the next update is going .

I enjoy playing LFS but when an update is said to be at a certain arrival time without reason (early 2009 when it has already been piushed back ). A customor has right to ask quetions on where the new updated product is headed & the estimated delivery date . Is that not reasonable question or request ..............................Seriously!!!!

It's clear that have either not read or totally misunderstood the words I typed (and you quoted) because your post isn't on the same planet as what I was talking about.
My post was about the phenomenon of 'moaners' putting a stop to communication. Your rant seems to be some misconception about a canceled update.

Quote from BigPies :

A customor has right to ask quetions on where the new updated product is headed & the estimated delivery date . Is that not reasonable question or request ..............................Seriously!!!!

Strictly speaking, it's not a reasonable request and no you don't have the right to demand estimated development timeframes.
When you purchased your S2 licence, you were buying LFS as is. Yes, it's very likely that the S2 version you purchased will be updated, but in the end, you're paying for what you got on the day.

If the devs decided to leave LFS for other ventures then it would be a nice warm glass of bad friggin luck.

(Apologies for double post)

Quote from farcar :

Strictly speaking, vit's not a reasonable request and no you don't have the right to demand estimated deelopment timeframes.
When you purchased your S2 licence, you were buying LFS as is. Yes, it's very likely that the S2 version you purchased will be updated, but in the end, you're paying for what you got on the day.

If the devs decided to leave LFS for other ventures then it would be a nice warm glass of bad friggin luck.

(Apologies for double post)

Apologies for being drunk. That said, I don't quite agree with what I have highlighted from your post. Everyone here has one price when they consider what future updates might add to the game and another price when they consider the game in its here-and-now status. What most of us have paid is a mixture of these two prices - we pay for the immediate entertainment, combined with the expectation of future improvements.

So strictly speaking, noone can really say whether or not we are in position to request various features from the crew.

Quote from evans :

we pay for the immediate entertainment, combined with the expectation of future improvements.

Just as you said, future improvements are expectations and not a right.

Quote from evans :

Apologies for being drunk.

No worries. I was wondering how you managed to introduce spelling mistakes into a quote, and I guess this explains it.

You must be aware that we can alter any aspect of LFS as we see fit. Improvements, fixes and/or changes made to the game, are to be expected.

1.4 in the EULA (first one i have ever read by the way )

So hard to talk about S2 with out sounding like a moaner but i expected s2 to be a final product and i understood when i bought the sim that it wasn't finished and one day it would be but when the days turn into years i think its OK for people to start asking some questions and looking for answers ..


Sort of pointless bring that up i guess..