This topic just keeps coming back, like Jason Voorhees (perhaps the search function isn't as well advertised as it could be )!

From the (numerous) previous threads, it seems many people think that engine tuning/mods simply wouldn't add enough to the LFS experience to make it worth the effort of including the game. Some have even suggested it would marginalise or disadvantage people who don't have a technical mindset, i.e. those LFS players who just like to start LFS, get online, pick a car and be ready to race in a couple of minutes. I'm one of those people. Double-click, pick a setup, floor it.
I can think of no other race sim that includes modding and tuning (although there are many many games that do), and it's probably because (I assume, I'm no programmer) it would very complex to code and there would have to be whole lot more equations, information etc included (not to mention it's limited appeal)...
If it ever did end up in LFS then you'd have the inevitable complaints from tuners who would post saying "devs wtf I adusted part X to get result Y and all I got was result Z wtf devs". And this would be after the inevitable and lengthy discussion of what mod/tune options to actually include in the first place ... It's hard enough already to please people regarding the core elements of driving, e.g. driving physics and tyre behaviour...add complex tuning options and noone would ever be satisfied. I suppose you'd either have to have something realistic and therefore out of a lot of people's area of expertise, or something dumbed-down (Gran Turismo style: stage 4 turbo = $1000 and 1000hp or whatever) so that everyone could use it.
Simply, I play race sims so I can race people in cars that behave realistically and with a minimum of fuss. I play LFS because of the good physics and simplicity. I may not be the only one ...

Quote from l2acer1 :

If im not mistaken there already like 5 different car classes?
Road Race TBO LRF GTR? why would u want just stock and tuning....how would u classify world records...? u no0bs who suggest this stuff think about yourself not the whole game in perspective....its a C-O-M-M-U-N-I-T-Y game not a I-W-A-N-T game....plus people that play the game probably dont know much about tuning engines....and yes u may say practice offline..but why would u want to waste time tuning your engine offline when all u have to do now is go and get a setup from a simple website..?....My point being if u want tuning play NFS...If u want realism play LFS...im done here...sorry if this is rude...lol...

Yes I think u are. U haven't read the threads above. LFS isn't 100% realistic unless tuning are added.
Yes there are different classes now but if u add a tuning class, people without engine knowledge don't have to play the tuning class.
And so what if u get a setup from a webside. Is that so bad. U could do the same now, right.
By the way u don't know anything about tuning engines, but u know what every suspension word means? If u keep the tuning simple then u don't have to be a F1 scientist.
I think u r the one not seeing the big perspective. U think about your self
by not allowing this game to evolve.

I see u joined July 2004 and still race demo. That tells me u r satisfied with those 3 cars. Fine keep racing them. But don't what we should do and not do. If u support this game so much, why not pay up and join the community. As far as I can see you r the thats IWANT GAME but I don't like to pay for the hole experience.

Quote from Hankstar :

This topic just keeps coming back, like Jason Voorhees (perhaps the search function isn't as well advertised as it could be )!

From the (numerous) previous threads, it seems many people think that engine tuning/mods simply wouldn't add enough to the LFS experience to make it worth the effort of including the game. Some have even suggested it would marginalise or disadvantage people who don't have a technical mindset, i.e. those LFS players who just like to start LFS, get online, pick a car and be ready to race in a couple of minutes. I'm one of those people. Double-click, pick a setup, floor it.
I can think of no other race sim that includes modding and tuning (although there are many many games that do), and it's probably because (I assume, I'm no programmer) it would very complex to code and there would have to be whole lot more equations, information etc included (not to mention it's limited appeal)...
If it ever did end up in LFS then you'd have the inevitable complaints from tuners who would post saying "devs wtf I adusted part X to get result Y and all I got was result Z wtf devs". And this would be after the inevitable and lengthy discussion of what mod/tune options to actually include in the first place ... It's hard enough already to please people regarding the core elements of driving, e.g. driving physics and tyre behaviour...add complex tuning options and noone would ever be satisfied. I suppose you'd either have to have something realistic and therefore out of a lot of people's area of expertise, or something dumbed-down (Gran Turismo style: stage 4 turbo = $1000 and 1000hp or whatever) so that everyone could use it.
Simply, I play race sims so I can race people in cars that behave realistically and with a minimum of fuss. I play LFS because of the good physics and simplicity. I may not be the only one ...

U havn't read the topic have u? DIFFERENT CLASSES. That's because u anti-tuning people don't want to race tuned cars. That's fine by me. Don't no really don't. If u don't have the knowledge and think u can handle it. Alright.
Race in the stock class. Pick a track, a car, an setup and floor it.

Then leave the tuning class to the 50 % others who would like to race tuned cars......

Why do u always think that u r forced to race the tuning class. It's a matter of choice.
Oh and about the tuners complainen, it would be a this forum. If u don't wan't to read it. Don't

Gee sorry. I feel so ashamed. Here I was, mistakenly assuming I was politely (i.e. without nuking people I disagree with) participating in a discussion and bang! I get childishly flamed for having an opinion.
Seriously, chill out, grow up, drink de-caf, anything ...

Guess you didn't read my bit about tuning not being worth including AT ALL due to the difficulties that would be faced by the 3 (three!) guys who make this game and the inevitable bitching that would ensue with regard to what should go in and how it all should work. Oh well. I wasn't complaining about being forced to do anything, merely mentioning some potential problems. If you want to take offence, fine. It's not my blood pressure.
And FFS "you" has three letters.

I don't know where your 50% figure comes from. Go start a poll if you want to be sure. This forum loves a good poll.

Hey, and if you'd like to abuse me some more, do it via pm as I've lost my interest in this thread.
For some reason.

I think people should read up on how engines work to give there opinoin validity.

Quote from AndroidXP :

What does engine tuning add to this sim? So every racer takes the "fastest" setting that is found out after a week?

IMO adding engine tuning would be a waste of time for a feature that is cool for five minutes and then ends up as "just another setup option".

If they would make an adjustment for the cam timing and the overlap of the cam profile , it would actually be a good improvement.
You could get a very long duration and long overlap to get more power in the high end for drag racing. And mild duration to get more power in the low and mid band , for rallycross or autocross racing.

I think this would be an awesome improvement to an already awesome game.

I would like to see some kind of Engine management system you would still have the same power in all the cars but could move that power around within the rev range.
RallyX you want midrange more than anything you should be short shifting to get the most out of the car not thrashing the nuts of it

Track is where you want all the power uptop i dont want a midrange, maybe a little for the take off but after im moving dont need it.

The use of a Power Commander on my bike is mucho fun, If i put to much power at the top doesnt want to stop spinning and lifting the front but put it in the mid and it will do 0-60 as fast as i can hang on

Anyhow the idea would be to get the best mix of top end power and midrange would be no power advantage like ive already said but it could seem like thier is (if you want the top 2k in the rev band to have all the power) illepall

Quote from lalathegreat :

I think people should read up on how engines work to give there opinoin validity.

Maybe you too.

I actually DO race prepare engines for competition work in real life. And I have nothing against racing tuned cars, as long as the tuned cars are equal. With modding in LFS that wouldn't be the case. I think I'd have a reasonable advantage over the majoirty of people (including some of the chavvy 'I luv NOS' types on this forum who THINK they understand), and yet I still don't want tuning in LFS.

Gunn has got it spot on. It will add absolutely nothing to LFS, and take away most of the good points. It would, in short, kill LFS.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Maybe you too.

I actually DO race prepare engines for competition work in real life. And I have nothing against racing tuned cars, as long as the tuned cars are equal. With modding in LFS that wouldn't be the case. I think I'd have a reasonable advantage over the majoirty of people (including some of the chavvy 'I luv NOS' types on this forum who THINK they understand), and yet I still don't want tuning in LFS.

Gunn has got it spot on. It will add absolutely nothing to LFS, and take away most of the good points. It would, in short, kill LFS.

Well that is why I suggested 2 classes to start with in this forum. I have also done my time with racing. And I havn't said that a want LFS to more like NFSU or GT4. Not at all.
What I'm saying is that for those who like to fidle with engine setups as well, should be able to race in a tuned class. Then it would even the score in that class.

For those who would like to fine tune their suspension and all the other stuff. Let them race in Stock. Can't really see why i should "kill" the game.
Would everybody just race tuned class? I don't really think so.

Quote from cbsalkvist :

Yes I think u are. U haven't read the threads above. LFS isn't 100% realistic unless tuning are added.
Yes there are different classes now but if u add a tuning class, people without engine knowledge don't have to play the tuning class.
And so what if u get a setup from a webside. Is that so bad. U could do the same now, right.
By the way u don't know anything about tuning engines, but u know what every suspension word means? If u keep the tuning simple then u don't have to be a F1 scientist.
I think u r the one not seeing the big perspective. U think about your self
by not allowing this game to evolve.

I see u joined July 2004 and still race demo. That tells me u r satisfied with those 3 cars. Fine keep racing them. But don't what we should do and not do. If u support this game so much, why not pay up and join the community. As far as I can see you r the thats IWANT GAME but I don't like to pay for the hole experience.

yes i joined of july 04....lol.....its just another game i downloaded for past time....i will eventually buy it.....but saving money right now for a car not a game....got plenty of those to play online......and no im not 1 of those IWANT people...i dont suggest anything....w/e the devs do let em do it....

Quote :

Maybe you too.

I actually DO race prepare engines for competition work in real life. And I have nothing against racing tuned cars, as long as the tuned cars are equal. With modding in LFS that wouldn't be the case. I think I'd have a reasonable advantage over the majoirty of people (including some of the chavvy 'I luv NOS' types on this forum who THINK they understand), and yet I still don't want tuning in LFS.

Obvisusly it dosent apply to people who already know.

Just curious as to what kind of Race engines u prepare, could u elaborate on your experience.

How would it not be equal with tunned cars in LFS. the person who is holding the race has to state some retrictions. Example
I might hold a race and put the only retriction as Normal Tires only or No more than 350HP.

Alot of people just like to say it won't add anything which is like the worst reason ever. You can't deny Drag,Drifting would benefit from it.

am starting to think some people think if it goes into the game a surge of "Rice people" would start playing it.
or they fear they will become slow.

hankstar really hit the nail on its head. Tristan said it nicely too. I still think it would divide the game into two parts. Oh, in this thread i realized that this offical forum can be a bad thing too. people suggest and want lot's of stuff, even if they are told (with arguments) that it wouldn't work. Just like if you'd go to say the official EA forum, where the NFS MW devs hang out (doesn't exist, i know) and start bugging them to improve the physics. Why? The game just wasn't meant for that. Same as LFS isn't meant for engine tuning. It's meant for games like GT4, NFSU/MW. Little kids play those games and brag around their friends 'ya, i've got a 10000 bhp skyline, beat that. I has 10 turbos and a 15 litre engine'. In LFS people can brag about their laptimes ut don't If they are asked they just tell their best time and let their racing do the talking. And that's where they are best.. beating other people in basicly same cars. You can get a lot of WR sets from inferno (heck, i'm a standard 'subscriber' for Flotch's FXR and at times UFR sets) and then you loose against those WR holding guys just because you are slower. Tunning would just mean all the people would run at the maximum limit (there HAS to be a limit, otherwise people would run 1500 bhp UF1000s) and then the cars would be the same.

Quote :

here HAS to be a limit, otherwise people would run 1500 bhp UF1000s) and then the cars would be the same

??? are u familiar with the concept of reality?
ok lets say for second a 1500 Hp car was possible it would run out of fuel and eat up the tires and prob won't win the race.

the point is not too have free for all cars, its too have a variety.
Limits should not be placed by the game it self but by who ever is holding the race or league.

U cannot say o but formula ford has these retriction; they use the same engine. This isnt a formula ford game.

i don't see how u guys can be against engine yet pro Suspension
Suspension setups are just as much performance as engines.

For the record, a lot of people have actually suggested that the road cars shouldn't be as adjustable as they are and I agree with that. LFS road cars should have some adjustability (they never drive on actual roads after all), but the options available right now are just a tad excessive imho.

As for the engine mod argument, I'll simply say leave it up to the devs to decide if it's worth including ... btw has anyone actually sought their input on this? It would seem more logical than asking the community as the threads about engine mods/tuning usually go the way of the dodo (which gives some indication of how popular the idea is, imho), and to hear something either way from them would perhaps bring closure to the topic.

Quote :

For the record, a lot of people have actually suggested that the road cars shouldn't be as adjustable as they are and I agree with that. LFS road cars should have some adjustability (they never drive on actual roads after all), but the options available right now are just a tad excessive imho.

There is no reason why the shoulnt be ajustable

Quote :

LFS road cars should have some adjustability (they never drive on actual roads after all), but the options available right now are just a tad excessive imho.

..

it would be nice to know in what areas?

Quote from Hankstar :

For the record, a lot of people have actually suggested that the road cars shouldn't be as adjustable as they are and I agree with that. LFS road cars should have some adjustability (they never drive on actual roads after all), but the options available right now are just a tad excessive imho.

For me I would have all these changable in my driving car when I race it. The big reason why people don't and leagues don't is because of costs. If it was cheap people would do it to a normal car I think.

All the areas of adjustability in the road cars are fine as far as I'm concerned, it's the _level_ of adjustability which doesn't ring all that true. They have nearly all the same ranges as the FO and GTR cars and I just think they should be a little less tweakable. For instance I don't know of any RL UF1 equivalent that has fully adjustable anything, let alone LSDs and racing gearboxes etc. Except perhaps my dad's old Minis ... the radios all had a volume knob...

I'd still like to be able to adjust the suspension and transmission and other things in the road cars, but to be able to do it in the same ranges as a GTR seems a bit OTT. If the road cars are to be as tweakable as the race cars, why continue with the illusion that they're road cars? You may as well just attach wings and let them use slicks..

However, that's simply my opinion (valid or not, as it may be). I don't expect that the devs will roll back any setup parameters on the road cars. As for tuning, their opinions on that will remain a mystery until someone asks them..

Quote from AndroidXP :

IMO adding engine tuning would be a waste of time for a feature that is cool for five minutes and then ends up as "just another setup option".

this is pretty much why because there's an "optimum" set for each track so most people would end up using the optimum settings anyways. so whats the pt?

Quote from Gabkicks :

this is pretty much why because there's an "optimum" set for each track so most people would end up using the optimum settings anyways. so whats the pt?

where are u getting that
there isnt!!!!!!!!! its no different thatn suspension setups in that manner

i mean some guys were talking about adding engine tuning... ok?illepall it would just be one extra unnneeeded step.

i meant what is the logic that i am going to run the same setup as everyone else?

not exactly the same... but there are optimum setups for competing at the higher levels. driver preference plays a bit of a part for things like suspenion and gear ratios... but when it comes to things like enging performance... there are optimum settings. even with suspension for the most part there are optimum settings. you wont see any of the higher level racers running drasticly different setups.

Quote from Hankstar :

For the record, a lot of people have actually suggested that the road cars shouldn't be as adjustable as they are and I agree with that. LFS road cars should have some adjustability (they never drive on actual roads after all), but the options available right now are just a tad excessive imho.

As for the engine mod argument, I'll simply say leave it up to the devs to decide if it's worth including ... btw has anyone actually sought their input on this? It would seem more logical than asking the community as the threads about engine mods/tuning usually go the way of the dodo (which gives some indication of how popular the idea is, imho), and to hear something either way from them would perhaps bring closure to the topic.

You have a point.
Is the game should be more realistic then road cars shouldn't be as adjustable as they are now. The only way you could fine tune your supension like you do in lfs is to buy an expensive racing supspension.
And the same with gear setup.

I just guess that the devs, reads some of the topics/threads and yes they will in the end program what they want.
I'm just suggesting.... It is not a demand, like: "If You don't program this in to the game I not playing it anymore."
I don't think they would care about that.