Quote from JasonJ :

Is that Window while connecting = YES option causing the slower screen load?
Each new patch resets that option.

And rightfully so as some firewall notices (i.e. norton) will be hidden otherwise and caused LFS to hold without the option to allow the application in the firewall rules.

Well, I'm running 0.5Z15, a XRR at bl1.
After stopping the car I got stuck on the road. Wheels have very little grip (I can't get the car to move!!) and looking at the forces on each wheel we can see that forces are physically impossible.

The car is stopped, so the momentum must be zero. But it's not. Something weird in mechanics...

I can't see any force at the rear wheels. A small force at right front wheel and a great force at front left wheel. (see images attached)

Sorry: title must say BUG, not BIG ;-)

Thanks...
raftor

EDIT: Probably NOT A BUG!!! in the following posts is a feasible explanation.

Does it show only in Z15?

I'm not able to reproduce it 8-( in 0.5Zp15. It seems that en position of the car is important. In 0.5Z I'm trying now to reproduce it, ...

raftor

Quote from raftor :

Well, I'm running 0.5Z15, a XRR at bl1.
After stopping the car I got stuck on the road. Wheels have very little grip (I can't get the car to move!!) and looking at the forces on each wheel we can see that forces are physically impossible.

The car is stopped, so the momentum must be zero. But it's not. Something weird in mechanics...

I can't see any force at the rear wheels. A small force at right front wheel and a great force at front left wheel. (see images attached)

Sorry: title must say BUG, not BIG ;-)

Thanks...
raftor

Did you use some unusual setup? Extra low or something? The car might have got stuck on the curb with only the front left wheel touching the ground.

Quote from breadfan :

Did you use some unusual setup? Extra low or something? The car might have got stuck on the curb with only the front left wheel touching the ground.

Hi breadfan!

No. It's a medium height setup, hard springs (150 kN/m).
I'm surprised because no other vertical force is shown... maybe bottom touching is not show... so there mus be another force....

Maybe... you are right...
raftor

The mystery seems to be solved.

After reading the post of breadfan (thnx!) I tried to stuck the car in a similar place, and noticed the big rear diffuser of XRR.

So, it touched the highest part of the piano and I got a similar situation to the showed in my first post. This reaction force is not shown so I got confused.

Thanks for your help!!
And to the developers.... Probably THIS IS NOT A BUG!!

su
raftor

Quote from rockclan :

Fuel added: 26 liters.
Fuel added: 26 liters.
Fuel added: 26 liters.
Fuel added: 26 liters.
Fuel added: 26 liters.
Fuel added: 26 liters.
Fuel added: 26 liters.
Fuel added: 26 liters.
Fuel added: 26 liters.
Fuel added: 26 liters.
Fuel added: 26 liters.
System OVERFLOW
Fuel added: 26 liters.
Fuel added: 26 liters.
*CRASH* (here the game crashed)

This bug is not test patch related since I had it at least 2 times with patch Z. I already made a post related to that in the bug section some time ago, but nobody actually replied to it... You can see it there, attached with a replay if needed !

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=41345

Curious...

Scawen, I just tested Z15 in Wine on a box I run (Wine 1.1.25, NVidia 177.82, 6600 GT, AMD 2600+), and I find that the test shadows are actually 10FPS or so quicker than the standard ones. Both of them look identical but the test ones are faster. I was only running it with 4 AI cars on BL1.

Just throwing my test results out there.

That is interesting, maybe the "CopyRects" function is slower on your computer / OS. The standard mode is supposed to be quicker (and is in my tests) because it avoids setting a render target several times (once per shadow / twice for each car). I'd be interested to know how it affects frame rate on other computers (and also yours Dustin, with more visible shadows and LFS paused) so if anyone would like to test this (Windows or Wine) then here's what to do :

- Add as many AI as possible to the grid and start race
- Pause LFS (we are not interested in slowdown from physics)
- Use V and TAB to select a view where you can see a lot of shadows
- Check frame rate in both SHIFT+K modes

Dustin, your result may be false because you tested with only 4 AI. It's possible that TEST mode is faster when there are not many cars on screen, but STANDARD mode is faster where there are a lot of shadows. In that case STANDARD will be the better choice.

On my computer test shadows are a little slower.

LFS settings:

4x AA, 16x AF, 1440x900

Computer specs:

Windows XP SP3, Catalyst 9.3

Ati Radeon 1650 Pro 512 MB
AMD Athlon 64 3000+
1 GB RAM

I got 18 FPS when looking at a full grid with standard shadows and I got 16-17 FPS with test shadows. If I turn off AA the FPS difference is roughly the same.

The shot shows my test scenario. KY GP Long, 20 XRT AIs.

I did some tests with the framerate.

The FPS are from various angles at Blackwood GP start, max. AI (XRT), highres shadows.

Windows XP.

┌-----------┬-----------┬-----------┐
|-STANDARD--|- TEST-----|---DIFF----|
|-----------┼-----------┼-----------|
| 17.6-17.7 | 17.7-17.8 | +0.10 FPS |
| 28.8-29.0 | 29.0-29.2 | +0.25 FPS |
| 23.7-23.8 | 23.8-24.0 | +0.15 FPS |
└-----------┴-----------┴-----------┘

For me, both windows and wine are less than 0.1fps different between standard and test with 20 AIs (it only drew shadows for about 17 of them, presumably because of distance), standard being very slightly higher.

Ubuntu 9.04 2.6.28-13 (32bit)
Wine 1.1.25
fglrx 2:8.620
11.5fps
16xAF (AA not detected?, haze off)

Vista sp2 (64bit)
Catalyst 9.5
58.8fps
8xAA 16xAF

Phenom II 955
HD 4890
4GB DDR3
1440x900 FS
SO Town Course

20 Ai, So City Long, Highres shadows,
1920*1080, 8X AA, 16X AF,
Ambiant Occlusion(Nvidia Drivers) = On

Test Mode : 62-63 Fps
Standard Mode : 66-67 Fps

I am on Windows vista ultimate,
Intel Q9950
Ati 260GTX (896mb version) (1680*1050)
4 Gb ddr2 1044 RAM
only 5400rpm harddisk

My Test Results:

standart shadows on high
20 UFR's on So Long Reverse

Standard Shadows
76,5fps

Test Shadows
74,2fps

Shadows off
92fps

I think scawen is right, it should use more from our computer, what is a logical thing after his explanation.

AMD 64 3000+ 2GHz
2 GB RAM
nVidia GeForce FX5500

Shadow test in Westhill sunset cloudy
20 AIs mixed

openSuse Linux - Kernel 2.6.27.23
Video driver 173.14.18
X.org version 1.6.2
wine 1.1.25

Viewing 2nd AI, track cam
Standard shadows: 10.8
Test shadows: 10.9

Viewing 20th AI, chase view
Standard shadows: 20.6
Test shadows: 20.9

Windows XP SP3
Video driver 175.19

Viewing 2nd AI, track cam
Standard shadows: 21.0
Test shadows: 21.3

Viewing 20th AI, chase view
Standard shadows: 26.3
Test shadows: 26.7

Scawen is it possible to disable ABS on the Server?

Cause we have got an league race with XRG/XFG and those guys who dont have the testpatch would have a disadvantage against those with the testpatch :X

Quote from CarstenH :

Scawen is it possible to disable ABS on the Server?

Cause we have got an league race with XRG/XFG and those guys who dont have the testpatch would have a disadvantage against those with the testpatch :X

You can use Airio to ban TC and ABS

what is that?

Quote from CarstenH :

what is that?

Insim app, similar to Lapper

http://www.airio.eu
http://www.lfsforum.net/showth ... 52368&highlight=airio

Quote from Scawen :

That is interesting, maybe the "CopyRects" function is slower on your computer / OS. The standard mode is supposed to be quicker (and is in my tests) because it avoids setting a render target several times (once per shadow / twice for each car). I'd be interested to know how it affects frame rate on other computers (and also yours Dustin, with more visible shadows and LFS paused) so if anyone would like to test this (Windows or Wine) then here's what to do :

- Add as many AI as possible to the grid and start race
- Pause LFS (we are not interested in slowdown from physics)
- Use V and TAB to select a view where you can see a lot of shadows
- Check frame rate in both SHIFT+K modes

Dustin, your result may be false because you tested with only 4 AI. It's possible that TEST mode is faster when there are not many cars on screen, but STANDARD mode is faster where there are a lot of shadows. In that case STANDARD will be the better choice.

I dunno, I'm not quite able to test with 20 AI, as the machine that I tried it on... 7 FPS with 20 AI so any benefit was blocked by the overtaxing of the CPU. I'll give it a try in a couple (with pause) and edit this post.

EDIT: Tried it again with 20 AI on South City classic using the "TV" Camera where I get the entire grid in my viewport. Test shadows are still quicker by the smallest margin possible (.4 FPS but I only have 7 FPS) and there's no change in what it looks like.

Later today I'll also try one of those gaming LiveCD's of Ubuntu or something (Current GFX Drivers and WINE preinstalled [or I'll update the wine on the LiveCD]) and use it on a more powerful machine (Macbook Pro, which does handle 20 AI well). That might give a better test.

Did the test as described on pause

Ubuntu 9.04
Wine 1.1.25
nVidia Driver Ver 180

Test with 20 AI KY2 XFR and TV camera view looking at 6 or 7 cars just after start paused
Standard shadows 8.1fps
Test shadows 25.0fps!

Cockpit view on start grid 20 AI KY2 XFR (not paused)
Standard Shadows 3.0fps
Test shadows 10.8fps

On my new PC with Win XP there is negligible difference between test and std

Some combinations seem to have bigger differences than others

20 AI KY2 LX6 (Paused) TV Camera View
Standard Shadows 19.6fps
Test shadows 23.0fps

20 AI KY2 LX6 (Paused) In car Cockpit View
Standard Shadows 15.5fps
Test shadows 34.0fps!

20 AI BL1 LX6 (Paused) TV Camera View
Standard Shadows 14.2fps
Test shadows 16.1fps

20 AI BL1 LX6 (Paused) In car Cockpit View
Standard Shadows 19.3fps
Test shadows 29.5fps

20 AI BL1 LX6 (Un_Paused) In car Cockpit View Average up to 1st sector
Standard Shadows Average 8.0fps
Test shadows Average 13.0fps

So fps is also significantly faster in paused mode...

Just to confirm, the FPS you're looking for is while LFS is paused?

Vista32 Home Premium
Core2Duo P8400
nV GF 9600M GT
Drivers ver. 7.15.11.7928

Normal Shadows
Low res - 71 FPS
Hi res - 70 FPS

Test Shadows
Low res - 68 FPS
Hi res - 67 FPS

Pic of view attached.

Test on Intel Pentium M 1,73GHz, Radeon X600 SE(64MB) and 1 GB RAM, Win XP(max. details, 2AA, 16AF). South City, 20 XRTs
on test or standard shadows using tv camera i get around 7,8fps,
but when i change to chase cam behind the first car, then the difference is bigger:
test shadows: 21.1 fps,
normal shadows: 20.3 fps.

Scawen, you didn't changed anything related to Force Feedback, right? Strange, mine feels odd in Z15.