Quote from PMD9409 :

Something about curbs in iRacing will just make you lose control rapidly. I never liked how the cars seemed to react over 80% of the curbs, so I just stay away from them now.

It's really bad on high curbs on the inside, exit curbs you can use even on Mazda with no problems. I'm guessing that tire doesn't absorb the impact enough, it would also explain why soft springs and dampers are working so well. We'll have to see how things develop, curbs come up frequently enough for staff to take notice.

I know some people including me might come across as fanboys, it's just bound to happen when you're really enthusiastic about something even if you try to remain objective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHyDpu0wQD4

Curbs never felt right for me, inside curbs will make you have crazy oversteer, outside curbs cause your car to spin the rears.

LFS curbs are always predictable (except KY2/3), and incredibly easy to correct from comparing to iRacing.

OK, besides the curbs, can someone explain to me why in every car in iracing, if you release the throttle, on a corner, or whenever, under braking, your car spins out?

Now I am sure, in real life, if you lift the throttle to change gear or brake, without giving it 30-40% throttle, your car doesn't suddenly go into physics meltdown and spin out?

Is this an iracing thing, because I have never seen or felt this in any other sim except gpl, or in real life... I am more than happy to accept that I am completley wrong here, but I don't want to learn a skill in iracing that is nothing like real life, it could kill me one day

Can someone who has driven any of these cars for real, please confirm that if you lift the throttle to < 30%, your car will go into uncontrollerable meltdown.... Even when you are braking for a bloody corner

You HAVE to always have a certain amount of throttle in iracing, ala trailbraking, to even keep the cars under control. I am willing to accept that some cars, maybe the skippy, need this wierd kind of control, but I cannot see why every car in iracing exhibits this same behaviour?

Surely, each car should need different styles/methods, but it feels to me like that if I learn the iracing way for the skippy, then i'm good to go in any car in the game...

Maybe I am being pedantic, but I simply don't feel that what is going on, and what I am learning to play the game, would translate to real life....

Quote from jasonmatthews :

You HAVE to always have a certain amount of throttle in iracing, ala trailbraking, to even keep the cars under control. I am willing to accept that some cars, maybe the skippy, need this wierd kind of control, but I cannot see why every car in iracing exhibits this same behaviour?

I never use throttle while braking, but I can drive all the road cars perfectly safe and relatively fast. One of the top 10 fastest guys on road courses is also braking with his right foot.

Seems to me the only cars with very noticeable trailing throttle oversteer are the Skip and SRF. The downforce cars are especially planted mid corner when you're totally off the throttle, for me anyway. The Skip just teaches you to be on the throttle early for a fast exit, by way of keeping you on the pedal to make sure the car can turn. From what I understand partial throttle helps transfer load towards the rear tires, which helps keep the back planted. Lift mid-corner, load transfers forward, and the rears loose grip.

There have been some real world drivers, of both the Skip and SRF, that have come onto the iRacing forums and said the trailing throttle oversteer is quite realistic. The main problem they have with the SRF is the top speed, reaching a few mph more than the real life counterpart.

Quote from jasonmatthews :

Why every car in iracing, if you release the throttle, on a corner, or whenever, under braking, your car spins out?

I've only tried the free trial version that has the Solstice, Legends, SRF (Spec Racing Ford), and the Radical SR8. The Legends is the one exception in this group, it's happy to turn with lift throttle, but spins easily if power is applied. The SRF is the worst, apparently due to exagerrated physics of it's open differential. I don't know what the Soltice uses for a differential. I assume the Radical uses a LSD, but since iRacing doesn't include any differential options in the setup menu, there's no way to know.

As mentioned in this thread:

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=54891

Induced understeer can be used to counter lift throttle oversteer. In my short time with iRacing, it worked with the Soltice and Radical, didn't work with the SRF, and wasn't useful with the Legends. In the case of iRacing, if you start to lose the car to a spin, you can combine induced understeer with braking, to keep the car pointed forward and on track to avoid incidents which hurt your SR (if you care about this).

I made a video with the Radical at Silverstone, using lift throttle oversteer countered with induced understeer to scrub off speed while drifting during corner enty to apex stage.

http://jeffareid.net/ir/irssrad.wmv

At Lime Rock the bumps at the end of the last turn are an issue for the Radical using the basic or advanced setups. The turn can be taken at the limits, but then the car almost always spins just as it reaches the straight. I downloaded a setup from Dom at Team Redline, changing the gearing back to short (his was set to medium), to make this video. The car get's bounced around on that last turn, but it doesn't spin. I didn't bother looking into what Dom changed, as I don't plan on staying with iRacing.

http://jeffareid.net/ir/irlrrad.wmv

The Skippy and SRF are the only 2 that get loose while off throttle/brake. The higher up cars (not completely sure about the mazda) handle like the GTRs (on LFS) do when you left off the throttle. At least it feels the same to me.

Quote from UncleBenny :

I always like the in car sounds in the GTR series more than any other game. Not sure what it was but they just seemed more raw, they sounded more like what I heard from in-car cameras during actual races.

Funny thing is, sounds are done by same company.
http://www.soundwaveconcepts.com/

Quote from Crommi :

Funny thing is, sounds are done by same company.
http://www.soundwaveconcepts.com/

Very interesting. Tim Wheatley did state the other day though that he also feels like iRacing is lacking in the sound department:

"I just know the sim is WIP - as it's always stated it is, I know the recording is correct, like it is for all the cars, the playback needs the work, and unfortunately you're just going to have to wait."

So it sounds like its a problem with the software, which I guess is a good thing since they at least have good recordings already, so when they feel like fixing it the sound could get much better.

Quote from spanks :

In both videos its pretty clear that you overcorrected violently and the car followed.
...
Like it was said in your thread, the car is well known to be aweful over 80% of curbs..just steer clear of them.

I will do in the future, that is until the physics are looking at, as I'm still adament that if it were RL, it would have been a brown pants moment, but I reckon I'd still be travelling forwards on the track.

Quote from jasonmatthews :

TBH Dave I agree with you. The physics in iracing don't feel right at all to me, and also to alot of my teammates. I know that you are a great racer, so if you are saying it feels wrong, then compared to alot of the commentators, I would trust your own judgement.

I have said it many times, but I can learn how to drive iracing, but it means I have to learn to play a game, rather than doing what comes naturally, which is what a sim should be about...

I think iracing is a HUGE leap forward in many ways, the tracks are just awesome, the FFB is incredible, god I wish LFS had the same bumps and detail, but sadly the physics in iracing just feel wrong to me... Shite, if real cars acted the way they do in iracing, 50% of the worlds population would be dead now

I couldn't have put it better myself. As you say, driving in iRacing should come naturally, but it doesn't. I feel like I have to learn bad habits that just wouldn't work IRL in order to stay on track in the sim. I get the feeling that's why I'm struggling to find the last couple of tenths per lap on the likes of Volker / Greger / Richard, because my driving style can only find me so much time before I have to start employ unrealistic techniques.

I also totally agree with you about the positives. The tracks in iRacing are without doubt, awesome, and it's one of the reason I bought a years subscription.

Quote from Crommi :

Initial oversteer caused from clipping the curb was only a small drift, possible to recover with very small flick of opposite lock, something like 10 degrees or even center and back. If you take a look at your replay in slow motion, your steering input peaks at almost 130 degrees of opposite lock which is way too much for so small slide.

I'm not trying to bash you, I struggled with same problem when I did the transistion from Skippy to Mazda. Not only this car has very grippy tires, it also has way faster steering and you can cut the steering work into half, especially for corrections. Curbs are still quite deadly unless you're comfortable with riding a higher suspension setup and soft ARB at rear, but it does make car feel little numb.

I don't really think any human being on the planet could have recovered from that situation after it started to go wrong, you can analyse and say I overcorrected or reacted 0.05 seconds late etc, but unless I was able to slow down time, I don't think I could have reacted better TBH.

As I've send to spanks, thanks for the advice, I'll just have to learn to adjust my style a little and avoid the curbs at all costs in the future. I did try a more forgiving setup, but the gains on a fraction more stability weren't worth the impact in handling IMO. I do appreciate you guys trying to help though.

Quote from jasonmatthews :

OK, besides the curbs, can someone explain to me why in every car in iracing, if you release the throttle, on a corner, or whenever, under braking, your car spins out?

Now I am sure, in real life, if you lift the throttle to change gear or brake, without giving it 30-40% throttle, your car doesn't suddenly go into physics meltdown and spin out?

Is this an iracing thing, because I have never seen or felt this in any other sim except gpl, or in real life... I am more than happy to accept that I am completley wrong here, but I don't want to learn a skill in iracing that is nothing like real life, it could kill me one day

Can someone who has driven any of these cars for real, please confirm that if you lift the throttle to < 30%, your car will go into uncontrollerable meltdown.... Even when you are braking for a bloody corner

You HAVE to always have a certain amount of throttle in iracing, ala trailbraking, to even keep the cars under control. I am willing to accept that some cars, maybe the skippy, need this wierd kind of control, but I cannot see why every car in iracing exhibits this same behaviour?

Surely, each car should need different styles/methods, but it feels to me like that if I learn the iracing way for the skippy, then i'm good to go in any car in the game...

Maybe I am being pedantic, but I simply don't feel that what is going on, and what I am learning to play the game, would translate to real life....

Someone else has touched on this, but I'll reply anyway. Most of the road cars in iRacing use an open diff, which explains the behaviour to a certain extent, and it is especially bad in the SRF, but I agree, the total loss of rear grip upon lifting the throttle feels very exaggurated, I know that if you use an open diff in LFS you experience a lot of lift off oversteer, but it's recoverable, and doesn't need 3/4 throttle under braking... Fortunately it's nowhere near as bad in the Mazda, but as I've said, that has it's own issues.

More tests, another post, sorry. :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETzi0XO6pu4

Quoted from youtube description: I've decided to compare 2 sims, LFS and iRacing, directly with a real life equivelent. While both sims each have their own different physics flaws, this test is focused on how to me, iRacing feels unrealistically out of control the minute the cars start to fishtail, especially in the formula Mazda.

The RL video is the best I could find, showing Alonso in 2006 throwing his car around at high speed (120+ mph I'd guess) in celebration upon winning in Japan.

The LFS footage is of me driving with a formula V8, running a setup with intake restriction to bring the power down to 260hp, similar to iRacing's formula Mazda's 240, with similar wing and suspension settings, and an open differential.

The iRacing video shows 2 replays, the first running with the advanced Laguna set, and the second with the basic Laguna set.

I tried to carry out the tests on areas where the track had no bumps or sudden elevations to influence the outcome.

You'll notice in the RL clip that Alonso is not worried about losing control of the car, and seems very comfortable throwing the car around violently. The car does not spear off the road into the gravel trap.
In the LFS replay, things look very similar. I'm able to throw the car around quite violently, and, so long as I'm paying attention, I can keep it out of the wall, although I came very close to losing it during one of the final slides, but it's not supposed to be easy.
Finally the iRacing footage shows that as soon the weight starts to transfer across, it happens with such violence and speed, that I am completely unable to save the car, on both occasions with each setup.

Surely if iRacing were completely accurate, Alonso wouldn't have dared to try throwing the car about at high speed for fear of killing 100 people?

I'm not sure what causes this problem in iRacing, whether its a tyre issue, or something else, who knows, but it's not right IMO.

I'd like to back you up here Dave with this video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... jWlok&feature=related

This video is of a Mazda IRL, and as you can see, it's oversteering like mad, yet is totally saveable. Did this problem still happen before the recent physics update?

This guy's on the ragged edge too! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkfzdhwYg9g&NR=1

Thanks for those videos, I wish iRacing felt like that looks.

I'm getting a typical response in the iRacing forum: "You're doing it wrong, you can't do it like that, Alonso was doing it differently" etc etc etc.

That's the typical iRacing response. Just get them to try it and post a replay, if they can't do it their must be something wrong

Quote from jasonmatthews :

Maybe I am being pedantic, but I simply don't feel that what is going on, and what I am learning to play the game, would translate to real life....

May be, as what you learn in LFS doesn't necessarily or directly translate to RL anyway. E.g. going at 150 km/h over the curbs in FE?

Quote from Doorman :

This guy's on the ragged edge too! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkfzdhwYg9g&NR=1

Doesn't that guy post here?

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Doesn't that guy post here?

If he does he can get his arse here and tell us how one of those things really handles

Sure he does, even created the bumpdrafting topic
http://www.lfsforum.net/member.php?u=310566

Well I never.....

So we do have a real life opinion about it

If he's the real Mckoy, then what a nice driver

Lol I think you have the wrong guy...

Heh, interesting thoughts.

One thing you'll note is that in the RL videos posted; the driver is reacting before the car really has any appreciable yaw happening because he can feel the event coming. Especially in the last video, one more split second and that guy would be facing the wrong way in a real hurry.

Personally I've unintentionally drifted around corners in the Mazda in testing more times than I can recall, and I always actually had the opposite reaction to you - I was starting to wonder if the car was TOO forgiving, now I don't know what to think. In any event, your replay shows nothing out of the ordinary in my view... the car started to go away on you and you corrected to much too late and it's all over.

I could just as easily record a replay tonight throwing the thing through corners like a dummy and my thought would be that it's too forgiving.

I don't know if throwing an F1 car around at high speed equates much to throwing the Mazda around trying to do the same thing; too many things are different for that to be remotely conclusive. Find a video of some sap doing the same in the Mazda.

I would also expect a pretty major loss of grip when yawing a downforce car since wings don't work well sideways.

edit: don't forget that driving around in LFS with a LOCKED DIFF for a number of years has probably skewed our perception of turn in more than we'd like to admit around here.

I want Star Mazda

BBT: In the test I did with LFS, I was using a setup to make the FO8 as similar to the Mazda as possible, i.e. OPEN DIFF , stiffer rear springs than default, lower wings, and finally, enough intake restriction to bring it down to 260hp (the Mazda has 240). I was able to throw it around as much as Alonso.

All cars in iRacing are OK to drift about as long as you don't get the weight transferring from one side of the car to the other. It's only that part I find rediculous.

Edit: I'd say an F1 car would be harder to do what Alonso was doing than in a Mazda, F1 cars are very aero dependant, stiffly sprung, very sticky tyres, etc etc.