Those that have been around LFS long enough to go through many patch cycles must have been struck by how different from the norm the current Z?? test patches have been.

Normally a test patch would go through a few revisions to clean up issues then the next real release would come out.

The current Z patches started before Xmas when the new car was announced and since then there have been a few patch revisions fixing minor issues but nothing else. Looking through the patch changes reveals nothing as most of the fixes have been very minor tidy ups and have not included the new car.

So here comes the speculation. Given there will be a few development streams (Current release and future changes) it appears most of the effort in now focused on the future versions. So does that mean the VW will be part of S3 and hence S3 is closer than we think.

It has been many years since S2 now and we have had glimpses of new track areas in South City etc. This patch cycle has just been so very strange in nature!

Well remember patch.. uhh..
D15 had the MRT, which was 12/7/03 (wow!)
But that was still S1, that was the only 'new' car added to S1 since it was released.
S2 however, we have seen the FBM, and the Scirocco.. made an appearance, however has not gone public (which for some reason.. soooomeone hasn't updated the LFS.net website to show FBM!)
However we also gained dramatic interior changes in several cars.

July 17, 2003 S1 was released, June 25, 2005 S2 was released.. well, so much for that two year thing, but on a serious note, changes are FAR FAR more dramatic during the stages of S2 than any test patches from S1 ever were.

This is probably because once S1 was released, Scawen, Eric, and Victor had already begun on S2 (old shots of aston exist, etc.)
The patches we saw in S1 were more of fixes and glitches here and there, the MRT was the biggest thing that came into LFS.

However, S2 has been very different in this matter, instead of going straight to S3, the team has decided to .. revamp everything, and give us a better progress publicly, aka instead of holding everything off for a new release, over the years in S2 we have seen many physics updates, texture updates, model updates, etc. etc.

For me, I think during S1 it was always about the future road to S2, but so far during S2 the devs seem quite happy and want to stay here on level base for a while and get everything ready for S3..

which..

.. after S3.. will we see updates? Or will that be the end?

We don't know, and I wouldn't be surprised if the devs are 100% sure about it either, which is why they are just fine sitting here in S2 where there seems to be plenty of work to do

I just think they stumbled upon a problem with the physics when they made the Scirocco. If the setup is limited, then they might have been unable to set the car up to dial out the excessive understeer we currently have. If you read the thread in which there was a little chat with Victor it basically confirms that. So I think the Scirocco is definately meant for S2, they just don't want to put everyone off of it due to the current physics problem.

I think there was 2 patches planned, the scirocco patch had a problem so the patch was delayed, instead of Scawen working on 2 seperate patches, they just combined it to make one uber patch.

If not and all we get is a scirocco, damn that will be a shitty day.

Scawen did post that he expected good things for LFS in 2009. Seen as we are far into it, and the shiccoko was first in LFS about a year ago, I think it is safe to say the shiccoko is only a small part of the new patch. This would lead me to speculate (also based on that german gaming thread here), that major physics changes are in progress.

This will mean that if they are major enough, then that means every car we drive in LFS, every track, every laptime etc, will be completley new to us, which would make me (and a lot of others IMO) very very happy and breathe a new life into LFS

The rotating brake discs got me thinking.
They can't be purely to look nice on zoomed slowmo vids.

The best reason I could think of is that they can now have some sort of heating/cooling calculations applied.

I think that delay could be related to the Scirocco deal.
I mean, VW wants to use LFS (or maybe an extra Version) to promote the Scirocco, a car aimed at somewhat younger buyers. hence they want it presented in LFS as accurat as possible, and so they may "forbid" the Devs to publish the patch untill the presentation is satisfying.
I know, there already was that E3 version, i dunno, maybe we get something similar to that Simbim Volvo game with VWs.

I expect the patch to contain:

• Enhanced/new tire physics (maybe based on data from VW)
  
• the Scirocco,
  
• the rest of the updated interiors
  
• some balancing, especially in the TBO class.
  

I wish we would get

• a new track area (the Wolfsburg VW testtrack, or Nordschleife (VW uses it a lot (GT24?), Nardo?)
  
• some more cars (more VWs, more GTR versions, the DP1?)
  
• a switchover to DX9. I mean, they already anounced DX11
  

just my 0.20 €

Here's my guess which is based on nothing but random thought and speculation:

The Scirocco and the unique way it will exist in LFS somehow opened an enormous can of worms for Scawen in terms of physics issues.
True to form, he decided to take a step back and get it all sorted before the Scirocco is released. This is where most of his time is being spent.
Getting the physics fixes out of the way will make it much easier for the team to deliver new content going forward.
The net result will be:

• The next patch will have the Scirocco, new physics and not much else.
  
  
• Late this this year we will receive new content. (This is the 'I'm expecting some good releases this year' thing that Scawen said....)
  
  
• June 2010 S3 will be released with another bundle of new content (tracks & cars) and a revamped game structure (integrated leagues/rankings revampled LFS World etc)
  
  
• December 2010 LFS will be open to modding.
  
  
• January 24th The first crappy iteration of Nordschleife will be released.
  
  
• January 25th 2011 The Four Horsemen of the Apocolypse will arrive....
  

Quote from ACCAkut :

I think that delay could be related to the Scirocco deal.
I mean, VW wants to use LFS (or maybe an extra Version) to promote the Scirocco, a car aimed at somewhat younger buyers. hence they want it presented in LFS as accurat as possible, and so they may "forbid" the Devs to publish the patch untill the presentation is satisfying.
I know, there already was that E3 version, i dunno, maybe we get something similar to that Simbim Volvo game with VWs.

Jesus Christ, not the "VW deal" thing again. When will people finally let that go?

The deal with VW was: get the scirocco ready for the 2008 Gaming Convention in Leipzig. THAT'S IT! That was the ONLY condition! The devs do NOT answer to VW, VW is NOT holding the release back, VW does NOT want to use LFS as some sort of marketing tool (come on, seriously? do you actually believe that??) none of that stuff! If the devs for some reason decided not to release the Scirocco at all, they could do so without any problem whatsoever from VW. VW has NOTHING to do with LFS! Jesus people...

One of the devs should really confirm this so people will stop bringing that pathetic theory up again and again.

My 20c for whatever it's worth as a long time user. (2001 or 2002, i can't even remember)

I agree with a lot of what is being said up above here, regarding seeing only small patches, possibly meaning a larger patch is waiting in the wings.

The Scirocco delay - don't really care, i know it probably won't be my favourite car, but if it has helped get some bugs out of the physics engine, all good, it's helped the advancement of the game.

The VW "conspiracy" - Get over it. There isn't one. I honestly believe if VW was trying to "control" the devs, the devs would probably say thanks but no thanks. They MIGHT be helping with technical data, but as for giving it a GO/NO GO, i can't see that happening.

LFS, in my mind at least, has always been about the quality of the experience, the devs don't usually release half assed patches (like some big game companies, some of the latest console ports to PC make me want to rage. And i'm still expected to pay $90AUD for a faulty game? kiss my ass) So waiting, no matter how long, is worth it, even if i don't play for a while, i know i'll come back, because the next big release will improve the game to the next level.

This is just my uneducated feelings on it, from what i've seen on the forums, my own experience with LFS, and my belief that the devs, altho a bit secret squirrel at times, know what they're doing.

Quote from obsolum :

Jesus Christ, not the "VW deal" thing again. When will people finally let that go?

The deal with VW was: get the scirocco ready for the 2008 Gaming Convention in Leipzig. THAT'S IT! That was the ONLY condition! The devs do NOT answer to VW, VW is NOT holding the release back, VW does NOT want to use LFS as some sort of marketing tool (come on, seriously? do you actually believe that??) none of that stuff! If the devs for some reason decided not to release the Scirocco at all, they could do so without any problem whatsoever from VW. VW has NOTHING to do with LFS! Jesus people...

One of the devs should really confirm this so people will stop bringing that pathetic theory up again and again.

Why shouldnt they release it... its there already (hence the video with the announcement) and VW shurely doesnt mind if it would come and make quite some promotion. And the devs have some more real information. its a win-win for both.

Where do you have your information from, besides whats written on this forum?

I Wish Scawen can tell us what he will release. Because then i've got something to look forward too, the only thing i know about is the scirocco and that's kinda old news.
I want to make him do this:

Most likely about releasing:
xxxxxxxxxxx

50/50:
xxxxxxxxxxx

Most likely not:
xxxxxxxxxxx

It would be awsome if he could put a list with that. Everything he has in mind that he can (or maybe) release.

Quote from obsolum :

Jesus Christ, ....

I was just speculating like everyone, and I don't know all the details from the contract. I just have some hope left that we get more than one car from that deal

I wouldn't wait for such a list Arox.
I suspect the silence derives from the fact that you can't possibly see wether a new simulation model works well until you're finished. If there really is a new suspension model in the works, for the most part of it, it'll feel very bad right until you've finished 85% of the work, when suddenly everything falls into place and you can judge wether it's better than what you had before or not. If not, back to the drawing board and repeat the process. Thus there's no way to judge wether you'll include what you're working on in the public release or not.

On the topic itself I think the last posts of Scawen combined with what Victor said in germany indicate sufficiently that we'll see some good progress within the next half year. I really hope that the suspensions of all cars will be sufficiently unique to make a difference. If that's true it'll be a whole new game to discover.

By the way, I've moved to italy for a year without taking my sim-racing stuff and, the way things are looking, I won't be missing out on any new content at any point in time. Yay!

Vain

Quote from jasonmatthews :

Scawen did post that he expected good things for LFS in 2009. Seen as we are far into it, and the shiccoko was first in LFS about a year ago, I think it is safe to say the shiccoko is only a small part of the new patch. This would lead me to speculate (also based on that german gaming thread here), that major physics changes are in progress.

This will mean that if they are major enough, then that means every car we drive in LFS, every track, every laptime etc, will be completley new to us, which would make me (and a lot of others IMO) very very happy and breathe a new life into LFS

But why now?
I mean look at all the real cars we already have they could've done that 4 years ago if they wanted..

MRT, RAC, BF1, FBM

I mean I really think you're right about that, it could have just been the timing of this car why it will get more attention than the other four.

Chances are though what we're looking at .. LFSW may be reset.. again, making all the LFSW noobs think they know everything and see I've only driven in LFS for like.. 2000 miles when.. that isn't the case (..for anyone that looks around at my posts, someone talking about a laptime i put recently online, which was a brand new laptime, and not my fastest one from back in the day)

so..

Who knows, maybe the VW team is giving more information to the devs than anyone else was willing to. I wonder if the devs even make contact with the MRT guys anymore anyway...?

Quote from senn :

LFS, in my mind at least, has always been about the quality of the experience, the devs don't usually release half assed patches (like some big game companies, some of the latest console ports to PC make me want to rage. And i'm still expected to pay $90AUD for a faulty game? kiss my ass) So waiting, no matter how long, is worth it, even if i don't play for a while, i know i'll come back, because the next big release will improve the game to the next level.

Exactly.

We all know how Scawen works, he has said it over and over again on the forums. He sets off with some goals in mind. But, sometimes he will find things during that process that just aren't right or up to his standards. He will then stop and fix those things and bring them up to standard. That is what I suspect is going on right now.

These test patches are minor tweaks that probably have absolutely nothing to do with the new work being done (from a code and programming perspective) for the next major release. It is stuff that he wants cleaned up and the only effective way of testing them and insuring quality, is to get them out there in test patches prior to the bigger release. That way, things are solid all around and we can enjoy the new features without a lot of minor issues that crop up with things like language packs, Linux shadows, etc. At least, that is my guess.

Keep it clean guys. This is just for fun. A little bit of wish listing and hoping is cool and fun.

Quote from Woz :

This patch cycle has just been so very strange in nature!

Yep but I think LFS development itself (sim model changes, new features, etc) is only part of the problem, and the other part (probably more important) is Scawen's attitude towards LFS - this has changed and IMO is pretty much clear from following the forum, reading old threads, checking old news etc.

TBH I hope we get a new patch with truly limited setups before Q3 is over to liven up things a little

Quote from Bean0 :

The rotating brake discs got me thinking.
They can't be purely to look nice on zoomed slowmo vids.

The best reason I could think of is that they can now have some sort of heating/cooling calculations applied.

Good thinking

Quote from Hallen :

We all know how Scawen works, he has said it over and over again on the forums. He sets off with some goals in mind. But, sometimes he will find things during that process that just aren't right or up to his standards. He will then stop and fix those things and bring them up to standard. That is what I suspect is going on right now.

I may be totally wrong but I totally agree. I think Scirocco brought unseen challenge - other real cars were not so known to the public. Now, dealing with a popular car and scoping on position of the most realistic sim Scawen has to make Scirocco as real as possible - and when a problem with current phisics occurs it is the phisics to be sorted out not the car model to be unrealisticly tweaked.

Is it difficult to put cars with sounds this realistic with the current sound system in LFS? And by current i don't mean exactly what we have now but the way engine sounds are made in LFS by very small samples of sounds for each pieace of the engine.

I care more about bug fixes, psychics improvements, track texture updates and additions such as brake heating, ... and LFSWorld updates.

I do not care at all about new cars, new tracks or sound updates.

I trust the Magic Three Devs completely as they did not let me down in early S1 demo days, not in full S1 and neither in S2 up to now.

I am neither impatient for a new patch, I still got enough combos to try, setups to fix and fun races to race.

I prefer one single quality patch above a shitload of patches every week.

lol everyone has high hopes for this next update and am pretty sure 90% of you will be disappointed; but at the same time soo happy that the update was released that you will forget you were disappointed in the first place.

i praise they're skills as developers, but they're not soo good at management it seems.

that's why its so bad not to tell people what your working on. people's imagination start to run wilder and wilder as each day passes. its the logical thought process when the patch has been delayed for half a year with no release date known

Honestly I only expect to see the VWS, some physics changes and maybe 1 or 2 updates to tracks/car interiors... Then the big one that changes the crash physics with the detachable parts and all the other crazy stuff at the end of 2009 meaning the last day of 2009. As a 2010 present .

You guys have never seen korean mmorpg devs. If they want to wait a whole year and they are sure it'll make a difference then more power to them as long as they DO release it and the release will warrant the wait.

Seriously have any of you guys seen other game's development? (those that don't include a fee). 6 months is really nothing in persistent games like LFS.

Most other game devlopers either
1. Call it a day after a certain point (rFactor)
2. Takes literally 1-2 years of delay time for patches and most usually don't warrant the wait time (Korean mmorpgs)
3. Gets a crap load of rushed patches every week that snowballs the games problems (most mmorpgs, combat arms, etc)

Maybe being an mmorpg gamer has made me apathetic to this wait (which is really nothing compared to other games.) Relax, if the patchers start to unwarrant their wait time then you can start to complain. But that was never the case before and there's no real indication that it'll happen with this patch. Just be happy that the devs are working and working hard to give us quality patches. Which is actually a lot more than I can say for most other games.

Lizardfolk, good post dude

Improved physics, brake heat/fade, interiors and new westhill layouts, now that would sort me out nicely. We all know these things are coming, but just how sweet a package would that be

Too early to hope for break off parts imo, I think that'll be one of the last things to be added before S3.

There aint a rush, when its ready its ready.

VWS, whatever

Quote from GianniC :

I care more about bug fixes, psychics improvements

Dude.. Physics.