My wheel is in pieces while I re-build my cockpit so I have the time to have a look at this.

I looked at the incident and initially thought, wow that was a pretty bold and a little offensive overtaking move. I don't race that way, oh well, must be why I come last a lot.

So then I watched the rest of the race.

Far from me being expert, but it seems to me that on several occasions Ring takes the inside slower line at entry and other drivers must surrender and give him extra room, adjusting their speed and line to allow him through, yet when the same situation is given to him he will not yeild.

1:15
1:42
3:47

Can't have cake and eat it to.
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, etc etc

right ok, well done.
now you should know 110m is enough.
sorry to have offended you.
over and out.

Quote from JasonJ :

Far from me being expert, but it seems to me that on several occasions Ring takes the inside slower line at entry and other drivers must surrender and give him extra room, adjusting their speed and line to allow him through, yet when the same situation is given to him he will not yeild.

1:15
1:42
3:47

Can't have cake and eat it to.
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, etc etc

lol nice ending.

I mean yea some people are agressive drivers but you just have to adjust to them, if they cut you off in a turn or whatever etc. etc. chances are they will do it again so you just have to learn what they do and then make a move yourself, that's just what racing is.

I watched again, and he starts to head to the left at 150m to go and you can still see Rising when looking to the left.

Like I said, even if you are in front, you just passed.. you don't cut people off immediately when you are barely ahead be .1 of a second.. you either wait the turn, or keep going. I don't know about you, but honestly everything I've ever come across is that you don't pass and cut them off unless you're trying to wreck you and everyone else.

If you really want to keep going..

attached image is where the brake lights become visible. That is not half a car length by any standards..

Now as for blaming it on ring.. you can't, he kept his line like he was supposed to, he didn't get into the line Rising had possession of, if anything Ring did everything he could to be right, cutting in front of him while braking is not a standard.

Just because you're in front doesn't give you all the rights.

Rising may have been behind, but Ring gave him the room as you can see they both move together fluidly while patrese is doing his own thing going left right left right, and finally brakes, and cuts in.

As fast as that happened, Ring didn't have time to check to see if Rising was still right next to him or not (all this happened in like 3 seconds at worst), so.. because he doesn't know if Rising is there or not, he kept his line, while patrese moved in, like I said it doesn't matter if you're first or last, you still take care of your own car, not cut people off and shove them around "just because you're ahead"

Heck when I'm racing if I see someone flying towards me to fast in a turn I get off the brake and get out of the way before he takes all of us out of the race!

(image compressed like mad for faster uploading)

Just watched it a few more times.. and here's an update

Ring never checked to see Rising was completely gone from his left side.. so he did was he was supposed to do and kept his line (incase they decided to play chicken with braking and see who was better)

Patrese was ALL the way on the right side at 200 meters, by 150 meters he was closing in, and begin his acceleration towads the left hand side of the track (..look at the input of his wheel), then at ~110 meters he braked, and his car was still accelerating towards the left hand side of the track (I say accelerating because of his momentum is keeping him that direction, at that time his wheel is heading straight)

Now.. I don't know about you, but whenever I drive my car, in LFS or not, I have to see the ENTIRE car from my center mirror, not until then do I change lanes. When Patrese is making his move, you can't even see a front wheel yet, all you see is halfway down the three quarter front panel and the left side... that is hardly an overtake when you're just ahead and going to fast into a turn, or as Patrese says ..just fine.. but for being on the wrong side of the track to make that brake and turn nicely.. it was about 20meters to late.

I still can´t believe that such a damn race incident is taking such a attention...

But what I can say that I raced both Ring and Patrese several times and always saw Patrese as a very fast but very fair driver that of course defends his position, but always leaves enough room for other drivers around.

Well Ring.. Indeed he is very fast too, but sometimes I have the opinion his thinks the track and every turn is only made for him. He often gives no room and starts yelling if others do the same

Just being fast does not mean that everyone has to let you pass if I am right!

And to be honest... With the XFG my brake point is at about 80 meters... So why shouldn´t a faster brake at 110 meters? XFG driver with such an experiance like Ring should know that the XRG is faster at the straight bus has to brake earlier instead...

So why didn´t he brake earlier too to avoid this crash??

Because Patrese's car was less than half a meter away when he floored the brakes, which equates to.. if you really want to do the math.. for Ring's brain to compute this, and apply the brakes himself, it would take him at best 1/4th a second, within that quarter of a second, he is traveling 115mph, which means that in that quarter of a second, he will travel 42 feet within that quarter second of him applying the brakes.

Now.. due to the difference in lag time, Patrese has already been on the brakes for a quarter second or so, so now.. Ring is half a second behind in braking, due to lag and difference in times, this is just not possible.. in LFS, and everyone should know this, lag delay, and human perception delay.. fact is, if you pass someone and put on the brakes.. dont FLOOR the brakes.. warn them by lightly putting on brakes to show your lights, then you can put the pedal down because they'll already be slowing down for you.

Flooring the brakes and turning in to someone who 'thinks' they have no room.. isn't the right thing to do, as displayed right here.

He didn't brake earlier.. because he had NO TIME. Patrese floored the brakes and gave absolutely no warning to anyone that he was going to floor the brakes and cruise over to the left side.

(those times etc. are only estimates, really it took about 1 second for everything to happen)

Quote from patrese :

JustForFunRacing earns himself VID(very important driver) status at Redline.

So does every Redline Racing asslicker?

Yes !

Quote from patrese :

JustForFunRacing earns himself VID(very important driver) status at Redline.

i believe thats called a buying people off

Quote from -NightFly- :

i believe thats called a buying people off

I believe thats called taking it all to seriously

Quote from th84 :

I would go ahead and ban tukko just for the hell of it!

Im behind ya redline!

For what its worth, I didnt bother watching the replay.

you mf asslicker! same goes to zeug aswell! I love you guys :lovies3d:

Quote from Shadowww :

So does every Redline Racing asslicker?

amazing how iv been around LFS longer than you yet you have 3x more posts than me and ofcourse, none of them helpful and probably not on topic like this one.

Anyway watched the replay and i would say it was 50/50
The XRG is going faster than the XFG and weighs more and thats why he braked earlier thn the XFG.

Quote from 91mason91 :

amazing how iv been around LFS longer than you yet you have 3x more posts than me and ofcourse, none of them helpful and probably not on topic like this one.

Amazing how people rate count of posts in same way as length and usefulness of penises.

Either way I still blame Patrese, if he kept his line, he wouldn't have hit Ring, end of story, there is no getting past that one, Ring kept his line, Patrese closed in on him and clipped his rear end on Ring period end of story... that's what happened.. you can't tell me it didnt, because Patrese is moving left, you can clearly see that in both of your images, while Ring is going straight down the track.

By the way, watch it real time and see if you could react that fast, even if you could.. he is still less than half a meter away

If Patrese says his brakes are awesome and he can stop fast, what if Ring's were not? If by some miracle they braked at the same time but Ring's brakes were as forceful as Patrese says his are.. the same incident would have happened no matter how you try and defend it, because Ring is going down the track straight, and Patrese clipped his rear quarter panel on Ring's nose.

Quote from XCNuse :

Okay Patrese you can listen to me now..
snip....

pmsl

Quote from HVS5b :

pmsl

..only way to get through to him I figured at the time

Quote from Shadowww :

what

tbh you are pathetic. I have been here since 2007 and my post count is less than 3000 then you call me a spammer.

IDK man, I thought it was one of Shadowww's best posts.
i lol'ed

Quote from XCNuse :

.... if he kept his line, he wouldn't have hit Ring, end of story, there is no getting past that one, Ring kept his line, Patrese closed in on him and clipped his rear end on Ring period end of story... that's what happened...

Anyone who lives in a reality like him wont get through to me.

Can a driver not take whatever line he chooses after he has overtaken someone? all drivers in this incident knew the brake point was looming, lots of people swerve infront after a pass then hit the anchors for the next turn, its maybe not polite, or a little agressive, but if your infront you have the right to any line you want, its the responsibility of the following driver to not rear end someone regardless of if he's just been overtaken, or if he's applying pressure to lineup or make a pass.

It is possible to be steering whilst braking, assuming you have analog brake pedal, I regularly drive off the track to avoid contact because I've pushed too hard and decided to put my car on the outside side by side in the brake zone, yes a silly thing to do If a driver sees that and allows room thats very considerate of them, if they allow me room at the exit aswell thats even nicer, but not expected in a competitive race situation.

After all is said and done, things happen in a split second, and unless drivers are constantly aware of where surrounding cars are, and thinking ahead about where they might be in the next second, racing incidents like this one will keep happening every day, and thats before you take lagg into account

SD.

@ Shadow: people dont just rate by your postcount the also read the constant drivel within most of them :J

Quote from SparkyDave :

Can a driver not take whatever line he chooses after he has overtaken someone?

Would you if it means putting yourself and others in danger.. ?

Personally I wouldn't no
saying that Patrese gave no warning before braking, sounds strange to me because everyone knows theres a corner coming up, 150Mtrs sign goes whoosing past above everyone should have expected everyone else to brake.

SD.

See lol that's why I'm putting blame on him for endangering others like that.. just saying

I mean if you want to get real, everyone was playing chicken on that turn by not braking though, if I was in that position I would've been on the brakes earlier than them, there is no way anyone would survive going 3 wide in that turn