Hi everyone,

Being in between games at the moment, I have been looking for a good racing simulation. My last experience in car racing was Need for Speed Porsche Unleashed (which I loved for the variety of cars / terrains etc...)

First impression is good here, I like the detailed simulation, the well modeled cars and interiors, and the look of the one track available. My elemnet of comparison is Toca 3 which I am also looking at, which has a lot more cars etc, but not quite as detailed it seems.

Secondly, it feels bloody hard. After a respectable day or so of offline practice, I went to the demo online races, only to find that to be competitive I had to run a laps in 1:34, when I am flat out averaginf 1:42... ah well it takes practice I guess.

Now for the questions:

- Can someone give me some basic ideas for car tunning, nothing too advanced, but something to help me with the basic track / car

- Been praticicing with manual and auto gear box, is it stupid to use auto at first and focus on the rest? Seems there is a lot to think of at teh same time, but then if manual saves me 10secs per lap then its a no brainer (at the moment I am slwoer in manual than auto)

- Would people who have played both Toca and LFS recommend LFS in any case? even for a casual player who can not spend too many hours perfecting his driving technique?

- Can one be competitivite with keyboard / joystick, or is a wheel an absolute must ( I am not talking record breaking but just being able to run at a decent level once practiced)

Thanks in advance!

Quote from vonb66 :

- Can someone give me some basic ideas for car tunning, nothing too advanced, but something to help me with the basic track / car

Check out the setup pages on LFS Manual (link top left). If you ever really get into it, reading a relevant book could be useful even just out of general interest.

Quote :

- Been praticicing with manual and auto gear box, is it stupid to use auto at first and focus on the rest? Seems there is a lot to think of at teh same time, but then if manual saves me 10secs per lap then its a no brainer (at the moment I am slwoer in manual than auto)

My personal opinion would be to skip automatic gears from the start. It's a huge handicap to learning to drive properly in LFS because the shift points are terrible for racing. You'll leave most corners one gear too high up with no revs.

Quote :

- Would people who have played both Toca and LFS recommend LFS in any case? even for a casual player who can not spend too many hours perfecting his driving technique?

It depends entirely on what you set out to achieve, imo. If you're happy to not race for the win, but just having a good battle with someone in mid or at the back (see below about controllers), you can do it with keyboard and with casual time commitment. If you experience deep inner turmoil not wiping the floor with P2, you'll have to have a proper controller and hours put it, I'd say.

The good thing about LFS is if you do end up getting a licence (don't even consider s1), time isn't an issue as the payment is one-off instead of monthly.

Quote :

- Can one be competitivite with keyboard / joystick, or is a wheel an absolute must ( I am not talking record breaking but just being able to run at a decent level once practiced)

I feel a wheel is an absolute must only if you get a licence and intend to drive the faster cars. XFG, XRG and FBM are sufficiently low-powered to be relatively easy to drive with a non-wheel controller. While I personally will never be record-breaking fast with any controller, I do well driving the XRG with mouse.

I'd strongly recommend using mouse and keyboard instead of just keyboard. Having accurate, analog steering was a massive improvement for me. You need to spend a few minutes configuring your mouse settings (in game and Windows), but for me it was infinitely better than keyboard, stabilised or not. If you want to have a go, here is how I have me set up:

Windows settings
- Control Panel > Mouse > Pointer Options > Speed : 55% (one click off the centre)
- Enhance pointer precision : OFF, this option is a real PITA to use with LFS because it causes huge speed variation

LFS settings : mouse
- Steer centre reduction : 0.78, more of this makes the steering slower around the centre, easier to make small accurate steering inputs. Alternative would be to go fully linear and reduce the mouse speed in Windows
- Button control rate : 7-10, speed at which your throttle and brake operate. XFG and XRG are fine with 10, but for powerful cars it might need lowering to prevent going everywhere sideways.

LFS settings : buttons
throttle : a
brake : z
clutch : x
h-brake : q
look left / right : w/e
shift up / down : left mouse / right mouse

LFS settings : driver
All assists and auto-clutch : OFF

To get comfortable using these, I started just by doing start and stop practices. Concentrating on just the shifting in a straight line. When the shift light comes on:
- release the throttle 'a'
- press the clutch 'x' and left mouse 'LMB' down approximately simultaneously and release immediately
- back on the throttle 'a'

Down from full speed:
- release throttle 'a'
- press brake 'z'
- press the clutch 'x' and right mouse button 'RMB' down and release immediately, repeat until you are in the right gear
- release brake 'z'
If I need to blip the throttle, I can switch to automatic clutch and tap 'a' when I shift down.

Once shifting is second nature (this alone compared to auto gears is a massive time gain), braking and apexing is the next target. You should aim to minimise the angle of turning, while being on the throttle before the apex. Braking so late that you're still reducing speed after the apex kills laptimes. Be smooth, gentle and brake early at least until you are confident of pushing hard as opposed to hanging on.

You can download and watch replays of top drivers doing their laps, not to mention test driving their setups if you have a look on LFS World (link top left). I'd also recommend getting a stable setup early on, usually some nice fast people will share theirs if you ask them politely on a server. If you feel a setup is too oversteery for you (yes, even the FWD setups can be very oversteery..), get one that's a bit more forgiving.

Oh and welcome btw

well...

I don't know what you are looking for, I used to play TOCA 2 years, years ago, but... this is something totally different

if you are looking for the feeling that you are "good" because you can enter a corner at 200 kph and you can correct every single slide then go for TOCA

but if you are looking for the feeling that you really need to learn how to treat this bloody machinery to keep it up at speed and than after some time realize how much you have improved, go for LFS

I am still learning for example, but I do enjoy it

considering your questions:
- lfsmanual.net
- manual changes will never give you 10 sec. but do you really find manual changes that challenging???
- for me it's LFS all the way
- once you get in the RWD powerfull car you rather need a wheel to get the proper experience if you ask me

the real question you will have to answer to yourself is:
"will I enjoy learning?"

Welcome !

Before learning the art of tuning, focus on driving. You can never make a competive set without good testing work, which requires much driving skills.

The XRG Hard Track set is OK for beginners ( not really competive, but not bad for some 34s laps ). XFG Hard Track seems to be too unstable for beginners, so get a "easy race set" ( see the attachment ) or some thing.
　

Id have a look in the movies section too, so once you get some experience thats the kind of racing you'll be having, itcc one i recommend.

Thanks for the replies everyone!
Some food for thoughts.

Hello & welcome vonb66!

If you like driving and you prefer the more realism versus easy driving, you are on the right place.
NotAnIllusion had give you very good references for quick start.

There are many things to learn about the LFS but there are very good sources also.
As you practice, as you read the manual and starting to change the adjustments of the car you will see that you are improving.
To improve yourself you will need to know on which points you are wrong. For example; if you cant take Blackwood (BL1) Turn 1 with XFG car at certain speeds, let say 80 Km/h than you need to consider about your speed if its too high (with XFG, its around 70) etc..

But, it take time to achieve some level generally.
Beside of the good setup (suited to your driving style) it needs also lap after lap practice sessions to get 1.34s for BL1/XFG.
A decent wheel is advised for more immersion. But there are many mouse /Kb users also.

You can check LFSWorld to see how many Km/Miles people covered (by clicking the left hand bottom icon, under the forum names for example).
There are many interesting info over there.

Good luck & have fun

PS. For BL1/XFG setup needs check those adresses:
http://setupfield.teaminferno. ... ar_id=50&p_version=S2
http://www.setupgrid.net/1/setup/hotlap/get/XFG@BL1

Quote from vonb66 :

- Would people who have played both Toca and LFS recommend LFS in any case? even for a casual player who can not spend too many hours perfecting his driving technique?

Yes, I have played both TOCA 2 and TOCA 3.

IMO, LFS is great because it's such a robust simulation that you can play it casually and enjoy it just as much as if you played it every night and were in a league. It's like Halo, in a lot of ways: simple to learn, simple to use, hard to master.

If I were you, I'd buy a second hand Logitech Driving Force GT, which should cost you about 120 AUD on Ebay. That's the cheapest 900 degree wheel and it really outsrips all the other cheaper wheels. Then I'd buy LFS. I played the demo a while back when my el cheapo Microsoft wheel was still working, and even without force feedback it was miles and miles better than the keyboard and mouse.

BTW I played TOCA 3 and LFS's demo is miles better, but you didn't need me to tell you that. TOCA's a great game, but it's not a simulator. Get both. They're both great.

Yeah, honestly, I've been a fan of various arcade driving games for a few years. Discovering LFS soon changed that, and now it's practically the only thing I play. I haven't even been able to get myself to play the last 3 NFS games (okay, they were crap anyway), and GRID was fun for a while, but
LFS FTW

THIS helps me alot with tuning my sets. you can ask around online for a quick set and use that to do some tweaks to fit your driving style

Press the "4" button in race&replays. It will help you to learn the brake/throttle points and the race line.

TOCA is fun, but far too easy (until you get to the grid of mixed-era F1 cars). LFS is fun, but challenging and rewarding.

One (the former) is better for 10 minutes of giggles, the other is better for dedicated sessions. Having said that, with a bit of practice you'll be able to log on, have a quick, competitive race with some people, and log off, so the above only applies as a newcomer.

I think it's worth the hassle to learn LFS personally (but I am biased!). And unless you are really REALLY struggling try to keep using manual gears. You might find them annoying now, but in a week or two they'll be second nature.

Don't worry about car tuning too much. Just use the system that softening one end of the car usually gives that end more grip. But softening both ends probably won't give both ends more grip!

Wait, I thought stiffer suspension preloaded more grip on that end? But loses it faster also.

In general, vague terms:

A stiffer end will transfer load more quickly - so you'll get a faster response - but that greater load transfer will give less ultimate grip due to tyre load sensitivity.

Plenty of occasions where the opposite may apply, or seemingly unrelated settings have a massive effect (e.g. a really soft rear giving massive oversteer due to the car 'falling over').

In general though, a softer end becomes a grippier end within limits.

I'm totally forgot how to save a car setups if someone send me those in the game. I don't understand it when the lfs guide told me to type GREEN S. What's that mean?

- ask for set
- when someone sends you one, press 'n' twice
- click on S next to the player's name who sent you the setup

well,
no,you do not have to have a wheel,as thier are some wr holders that use the keybourd and mouse. Of course,having a wheel makes playing the game easier,but is not a must. In fact,my wheel broke like a month ago,and originally I SUCKED with the mouse,but after a day or so of practicing ,I noticed it wasnt so bad after all. I was actually only a second off some of my pb's after a week or so of practise ,and,with the mouse at the oval,I actually got a new pb. of course,I am still searching for a new wheel,but playing with the mouse isnt horrible at all.

Quote from carey :

Same here. The Logitech's are so darn expensive (although I'll probably end up getting one).

ya,ill end up getting one to.its way to uncomfortable using the mouse.

oh ya,and no,it is not stupid to have an automatic when u first start the game,as at some tracks,I still do automatic.the first track u should try manuel at is the oval

yes,of course its a good habit to get into,but when you first start the game,it makes sense to start with automatic.

Quote from Zay :

the first track u should try manuel at is the oval

That makes no sense.

Why would you want to learn manual shifting on a track that requires no shifting at all once you are in the highest gear?

I would recommend drag strip as a track to learn shifting.

Quote from zeugnimod :

That makes no sense.

Why would you want to learn manual shifting on a track that requires no shifting at all once you are in the highest gear?

cuz its easy.then,move on to harder tracks.

Quote from Zay :

cuz its easy.then,move on to harder tracks.duh

It's not easy, it's non-existant.

duh