Dunno about you put I want to see some psychic improvements!
Dunno about you put I want to see some psychic improvements!
Me too. I want to know when someone plans to crash into my car on T1, and every other corner
I R wantz MRT7
Like 2 types of MRT
Just like LX4 and LX6
We now have the MRT5, but the MRT9 is already racing.
Edit:
Ofcourse I meant MRT9
Like 2 types of MRT
Just like LX4 and LX6
We now have the MRT5, but the MRT9 is already racing.
Edit:
Ofcourse I meant MRT9
What, You don't have that psychic ability yet? Back to demo then until you have mastered the art!
I'd like to speculate that Scavier can sit down for a day, or a day's worth over a couple of weeks, and come up with about a dozen good fun and varied road cars. Then add them to the game. There's plenty of room in the current car set for a muscle car, a couple of exotics, a Fiat 500 or VW Beetle RWD to go with the UF1, a racing version of same for the UFR/XFR class, and so on.
But since I don't know anything about how Scavier go about things or what their intentions are, and since we've already had this discussion, I won't speculate that it's crazy from the uninformed POV of an average player looking in (as far as looking at an opaque window allows) from outside, that this is somehow not feasible.
But since I don't know anything about how Scavier go about things or what their intentions are, and since we've already had this discussion, I won't speculate that it's crazy from the uninformed POV of an average player looking in (as far as looking at an opaque window allows) from outside, that this is somehow not feasible.
You do know why we got the MRT5, don't you?
I'm extremely looking forward to one day have two similarly powered RWDs in TBO class that only differ in detailed points like torque-curve, weight distribution and the suspension geometry.
Really, I'd love to spend weeks and weeks on exactly figuring out how e.g. a longer wheelbase combined with smaller front axle track width influence turn-in behaviour at BL's T5 alone. After 3 weeks of daily analysis I'd then move on to T6. And then I didn't yet get to analyse different geometries for the rear multi-link suspension and didn't figure out yet how different torque curves interact with the Torsen LSD on corner exit (and thus affecting understeer behaviour).
There need to be at least 8 cars in TBO. At least. Plus naturally aspirated variants.
( ... Did you know that apparently there is a stylistic device called "exaggeration"? Cool stuff, isn't it? )
Vain
I know back to demo for him.
I was racing once and someone tried to pit me and take me out but for some reason i slammed on the brakes (i was 1st) he went past and clipped my front bumper which made him spin and he took out most of the field.
10-12 road cars spread over 3 current classes and a whole new one works out to 2 new cars per old class and a new four-car class. Seems reasonable to me. More reasonable than being limited to the difference in chassis and drivetrain that we've got now; so you don't have to look forward to that, it's already here.
So far we have almost nothing but 4 bangers. I don't know how anyone could argue that this aspect of the car set is satisfactory, that it couldn't be added to.
UF1: Could use one of those old RR cars like the Fiat 500 or VW Beetle. Or a synthesis of those like Scavier know how to do. Make the engine a thumper like the Beetle's.
XFG/XRG: I frankly can't think of an addition for this one.
TBO: Every one of these is a 4 cylinder turbo. Can you say redundant? A heavy RWD naturally aspirated saloon and something else with novelty shouldn't be too hard to fit here. I'd say something like a Miata but that's yet another 4 cylinder. Bo-ring.
LRF: A classic front engined RWD like the Corvette or M3 with a big NA engine and really simple handling; as much a staple of motorsports as the Porsche is. A bigger MR also with an NA engine. Or maybe do both an M3-ish car with the I-6 it used to have, and something like a Vette with a big low-reving V8. A rotary powered lightweight like the RX7 would fit here too.
A new class: Either exotics with four of the most varied formulas that exist.. e.g. a big exotic MR like the current Murcielago, something that handles like the Skyline with that high tech I6 (for the sound) and four wheel steering etc, a lighter MR like the F360 family, and some other stuff I can't think of... but I reckon it's not hard to find since this class is so rich in reality.
GTRs: Pretty much all of the above could then have a GTR model. That's something like 5 new GTRs for the current two GTR classes, with maybe the fast exotic road cars getting a separate GTR class. Whatever... Redundant? Not when it would fill the gaps in laptimes at all tracks, overall. Instead of struggling with getting just two and three GTRs close enough at all tracks like right now, you could have more competitors and inherently easier time to have any one of these many models close in laptime to at least one of the other cars in its class. This random distribution is easy to appreciate if you plot it:
Right now:
Three cars added:
And instead of cars getting away from the pack (meaning the other two in LFS' case) anytime they've got a slight advantage in laptime, any given car would be in close competition with at least one other in the class, which slows down the field stretching into individual models hotlapping on their own.
And that's just road cars. Other types would be great too, e.g. LM prototypes, etc...
So far we have almost nothing but 4 bangers. I don't know how anyone could argue that this aspect of the car set is satisfactory, that it couldn't be added to.
UF1: Could use one of those old RR cars like the Fiat 500 or VW Beetle. Or a synthesis of those like Scavier know how to do. Make the engine a thumper like the Beetle's.
XFG/XRG: I frankly can't think of an addition for this one.
TBO: Every one of these is a 4 cylinder turbo. Can you say redundant? A heavy RWD naturally aspirated saloon and something else with novelty shouldn't be too hard to fit here. I'd say something like a Miata but that's yet another 4 cylinder. Bo-ring.
LRF: A classic front engined RWD like the Corvette or M3 with a big NA engine and really simple handling; as much a staple of motorsports as the Porsche is. A bigger MR also with an NA engine. Or maybe do both an M3-ish car with the I-6 it used to have, and something like a Vette with a big low-reving V8. A rotary powered lightweight like the RX7 would fit here too.
A new class: Either exotics with four of the most varied formulas that exist.. e.g. a big exotic MR like the current Murcielago, something that handles like the Skyline with that high tech I6 (for the sound) and four wheel steering etc, a lighter MR like the F360 family, and some other stuff I can't think of... but I reckon it's not hard to find since this class is so rich in reality.
GTRs: Pretty much all of the above could then have a GTR model. That's something like 5 new GTRs for the current two GTR classes, with maybe the fast exotic road cars getting a separate GTR class. Whatever... Redundant? Not when it would fill the gaps in laptimes at all tracks, overall. Instead of struggling with getting just two and three GTRs close enough at all tracks like right now, you could have more competitors and inherently easier time to have any one of these many models close in laptime to at least one of the other cars in its class. This random distribution is easy to appreciate if you plot it:
Right now:
Three cars added:
And instead of cars getting away from the pack (meaning the other two in LFS' case) anytime they've got a slight advantage in laptime, any given car would be in close competition with at least one other in the class, which slows down the field stretching into individual models hotlapping on their own.
And that's just road cars. Other types would be great too, e.g. LM prototypes, etc...
I dont get this plot - whats the point of having imbalanced class? People can sort it out on hosts applying restrictions but thats not the point to force that.
i don't care for test patches, all i want is the Scirocco.
The VolksWagen Scirocco comes when chuck norri´s wants it to come...
so pray for chuck norris
so pray for chuck norris
:noob:
Forget the VW , what about the very very late interiors?
Fix the broken shit before introducing more things to fix...
Fix the broken shit before introducing more things to fix...
Imbalanced class? That's what we have right now.
There's no scale on that plot. It's only a picture of the effect of adding more cars versus trying to get fewer cars balanced perfectly at every track. The letters on the plot represent tracks, the dots are cars, the vertical axis is lap time. The point is that instead of fighting in the deminishing returns stage of tweaking the last 10% of performance disparity between 3 cars, it's easier to reach that 90% parity and then fill the gaps with 3 new cars also worked out to 90% parity. Getting to (numbers made up for sake of argument) 95 and 99.9% parity is less bang (player fun) for your buck (dev time/effort) than giving players more cars to fill the gaps.
If LFS already had a relatively good variety of car types, it'd be a different story. But it doesn't. There's no more than 3 cars in any given class. A large predominance of 4 cylinder cars. The VW will be yet another 4 cyl FWD.
Yes but instead of saying MRT7 and MRT9 I only meant MRT9
In fact - the more cars the better, but the setup possibilities are so wide that adding new cars doesnt make such difference. Scirocco would have much more narrower range of settings to fit real car possibilities.
I was for restriction system, at the time it was to be introduced, as it allows to balance cars by the hosts - I had some great races lately at Ready2Roll where restriction are forced for GTR and TBO class - I was arguing something similar to your proposal: that with restriction system devs could introduce more cars (say one per quarter) that could be balanced on the hosts.
I do think it makes such a difference, if the current cars are any indication. I guess we won't know for sure unless we got those extra cars
I personally wouldn't refuse such an influx of new cars, but I reckon it might be a bit too rushed for Scavier's standards to just put out cars without balancing them, and leave that hard work for the players.
I personally wouldn't refuse such an influx of new cars, but I reckon it might be a bit too rushed for Scavier's standards to just put out cars without balancing them, and leave that hard work for the players.
I don't care for multi-car classes at all.
Wouldn't we all be a bit happier if, say, instead of FXR and XRR we instead had been given an LMP and a Rallycross car and if FZR was simply designed to be as exciting and authentic as possible rather than to "fit" a class?
Not so simple as that, obviously, but there has been all this time wasted "balancing" classes (a joke in itself), whilst most people just pick one car of the class and stick with it, rendering the others almost irrelevant (for them). Add 3 more cars to the GTR class, and you just have more work "balancing", more compromising of cars, and once the novelty has worn off, 3 more that you largely ignore.
Wouldn't we all be a bit happier if, say, instead of FXR and XRR we instead had been given an LMP and a Rallycross car and if FZR was simply designed to be as exciting and authentic as possible rather than to "fit" a class?
Not so simple as that, obviously, but there has been all this time wasted "balancing" classes (a joke in itself), whilst most people just pick one car of the class and stick with it, rendering the others almost irrelevant (for them). Add 3 more cars to the GTR class, and you just have more work "balancing", more compromising of cars, and once the novelty has worn off, 3 more that you largely ignore.
But the news was quickly spread on how to balance the cars instead of months of testing to suit them on different combos and races lenght
I like multi-car classes. It lets the strengths of some cars shine in some tracks, while other tracks they won't do so well. If the setup system was a little more limited, I think that would naturally even out the classes a bit more since extreme setups to negate a car's weaknesses will no longer be an option.
It doesn't fit LFS's game model right now, but having different cars with different strengths and weaknesses would really make a difference in multi-race and multi-track championships. Obviously if people are running an online race over and over at one track they will naturally pick the fastest car.
Sorta like right now, I'm going through the Career mode on GTLegends, something I never did when I first got the game. I picked the 914 in the 70's GT challenge, a series of 6 races with 8 laps each. The first race was at Monza, and I got pretty much killed by the Corvette, Capri and Pantera since most of the track is about top-speed. But the next race at Hockenheim I pretty much cleaned them up with the 914 since it can carry more corner speed. I like racing different cars. That's part of the reason why I dont play LFS online anymore. After you filter through 90% of the servers that are drift or cruise or demolition derby, the rest are all people running GTR cars. Boring.
Brendan
It doesn't fit LFS's game model right now, but having different cars with different strengths and weaknesses would really make a difference in multi-race and multi-track championships. Obviously if people are running an online race over and over at one track they will naturally pick the fastest car.
Sorta like right now, I'm going through the Career mode on GTLegends, something I never did when I first got the game. I picked the 914 in the 70's GT challenge, a series of 6 races with 8 laps each. The first race was at Monza, and I got pretty much killed by the Corvette, Capri and Pantera since most of the track is about top-speed. But the next race at Hockenheim I pretty much cleaned them up with the 914 since it can carry more corner speed. I like racing different cars. That's part of the reason why I dont play LFS online anymore. After you filter through 90% of the servers that are drift or cruise or demolition derby, the rest are all people running GTR cars. Boring.
Brendan
Ahh GTL the only simbin/blimey sim that feels like its simulating what it set out to.Still a fave of mine i can never tire of the Gt Cortina or the Mustangs.
Its pity Simbin etc kept using the sam tyre model from GTL and applied it to all of there other sims, cross plys ftw..
Its pity Simbin etc kept using the sam tyre model from GTL and applied it to all of there other sims, cross plys ftw..
You have obviously thought in depth on why it's better to "scatter-shot" new cars into classes to balance things out, but you fail to see one flaw: No matter how trifle the differences, most users still use the best car available. So instead of an almost single car type field and 1-2 mostly unused cars, you'll end up with an almost single car type field with 4-5 mostly unused cars.
I for one would prefer a balance as good as possible, so that, depending on driving styles, any car has a realistic chance of winning, depending on driving style. I do hope that this point will be achieved once limited setups are introduced to all the cars.
Also by adding new cars into existing classes, the work to balance it out grows exponentially.
So in conclusion, while I would be the last person to complain about new content, I just don't think that adding a whole bunch of new cars would be a sensible thing to do by Scavier at this point of developement.
As a lot of you have mentioned Alot of the classes need something a little different in them to mix things up.
For The TBO Class Why have the powers above never beefed up my beloved XF GTI now I love this car.
But id love a 1.8i 16v version or even a 2.0 16v like alot of the 90's hot hatches
It could be NA or even turboed If we are really going to keep that class TBO
Small light car with short wheel base and a lot of power. Given 160-180bhp im sure it would be a very good match for its bigger higher powered TBO brothers.
Theres not really much work involved as we already Have the model, it would just need bigger and wider wheels and its power uprated.
This would mix the TBO class up a bit id have thought. At least get it in a test patch to give it a try
Fiesta RS turbo anyone
For The TBO Class Why have the powers above never beefed up my beloved XF GTI now I love this car.
But id love a 1.8i 16v version or even a 2.0 16v like alot of the 90's hot hatches
It could be NA or even turboed If we are really going to keep that class TBO
Small light car with short wheel base and a lot of power. Given 160-180bhp im sure it would be a very good match for its bigger higher powered TBO brothers.
Theres not really much work involved as we already Have the model, it would just need bigger and wider wheels and its power uprated.
This would mix the TBO class up a bit id have thought. At least get it in a test patch to give it a try
Fiesta RS turbo anyone
And in leagues?
The scatter isn't supposed to be so great that you have no chance of competing. There won't ever be (in a realistic practical pov) a perfectly balanced class of cars at every track. There'll always be at least a few if not all tracks where at least one car is lagging behind the rest. And the more different cars in a class, the better your chances of having a car near you to compete against, regardless of whether you're ahead or at the back of the pack. That's the aim of adding new cars to classes, not to altogether give up on balancing classes.
Why exponentially?
Speculation on current test patch
(113 posts, started )
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