R2 can work for races at 3-5 laps, but for longer race you either have to play around with setups that ease the pressure on the tyres or using a R2 and upwards. But again, how realistic is that amount of laps? usually there is around 10+ min races, and that is often more than that amount of laps, and then the tyres are pretty much useless after 6+ minutes and then you have to drive around skidding the last 4 minutes which is a nightmare.

Yeah same with FOXs/R1s. I use R1s for most of the tracks in the (FM) Fox Junkies rotation but sometimes the last lap is a bit hairy, like FE3 for example. I'm usually 1-1.5 seconds of WR so as [DUcK] said, I'm not driving fast enough.

Quote from pik_d :

Yeah same with FOXs/R1s. I use R1s for most of the tracks in the (FM) Fox Junkies rotation but sometimes the last lap is a bit hairy, like FE3 for example. I'm usually 1-1.5 seconds of WR so as [DUcK] said, I'm not driving fast enough.

I only use R1s for really short tracks like SO1 or AS1. R2s for the rest.

Quote from pik_d :

I've just entered a FOX league where we have to use R1s and R2s so

Also the main point is why do we have a tire that is useless in a race? I think it's a bit silly to have quali-only tires when real racing series haven't used such a tire for 23 years. It is a sim afterall.

LFS must be a PHYSICS sim, but not nessarily a real life racing simulator. We may experience some very unrealistic situations in game play, but the physical progress is sitll simulated.

Assuming that there's the Fiat Punto car ( restricted to stock setup ) and the Nurburgring Nordschleife track in the next patch, both perfectly recreated. We drive around the track with the car in LFS, an then a real Punto at the real Nordschleife. Of course we'll get approximately equal lap times. However, with "stick tyre mod" we can put a certain type of slick tyre on the stock Punto and lap times would definatly improve. Is that realistic ? Don't think so. How can you find a stock Punto with slicks in real life ? But that's simulation. "If I fix this tyre on a real Punto and go to Nordschleife I'll get lap times around xx'xx", my sim tells me so." The physical progress is real and we can believe in the sim, though it's about some unreasonable situations which can hardly be checked in real lfie.

If LFS is going to be a real life racing simulator, devs will delete coustom/chase view and racing line dispaly, ban F9/10, ban fuel display in F12, lock most setup options in STDs and a lot in TBOs/LX4/LRFs, limit all the options to a few values ( not 0.001 step ), limit sets of tyres a car can use in a race weekend, add setup changing time in pit, multiply repairing time by 100, keep damage / worn when a car goes back to pit or the server switchs from qualifying to race, kill the driver when a car crashes at 30g+, and leave a hit cone where it is if there is no marshall (player) around to put it back ... ...

You have a valid point, some things cannot be accurately simulated as they are in real life, some allowances must be made. However those allowances are mostly in the way information is communicated from your PC to you such as F9-F12 menus. The actual virtual world should be as accurate as possible, and giving us what are basically joker tires isn't that at all.

It also means that there is pretty much only one tire that even makes sense for long races, R2s for FOXs, R3s for GTRs (R4/R3 for FXR I think). A lot of open wheel championships have two or more types of tires and both seem to actually work.

Also, you should be carefull giving too much restriction, or you'll scare away many, many of the users. Some things might not be realistic, but it's a matter of choise and driving style, punishing all those who have an alternative way of driving this game would leave LFS dead.

That means, remove every cam that ain't cockpit cam, remove mouse driving function, remove gamepad function, remove keyboard driving, remove specate/pit buttons etc etc, sure, you would be left with the core, but would it be good advertising? Doubtly, and you would lose a lot of the veterans.

Quote from The Very End :

Also, you should be carefull giving too much restriction, ...

That's why I hate nKP. Physics isn't everything.

All the nKP ads are saying "We are professional, no arcade style features." ( Even no HUD ) What's the point ?!

R1's might be a bit soft but thats not the only problem with tires in lfs,

With the enduro races with gtr's we always get heating up > cooling down > getting thin and faster and then get a puncture.

in real life a new tire normaly has 1 or 2 laps where its at its best > heats up > stays there > if you overheat it the graining starts the tires weares alot quicker and still doesnt cool down > get thin loose grip get the canvas through it and then pop.

Already looking at that you cant realy say if the r1's are to soft, becaus you just know even if the overheat alot in the first 10 laps, 20 laps later ( on a average size track ) the will be normal temp and very thin and alot faster then if you would have started on r2's wich are way to cold at that point.

edit: this system does work mostly for the road tires cuss the hardly cool down all the way.

Quote from The Very End :

Also, you should be carefull giving too much restriction

You're just whining because you're a weirdo who races with chase cam

Guys this debate is entirely superfluous. Scawen knows that the tyre heating, wear and compound selection/behaviour are not finalised.

Quote from AndroidXP :

You're just whining because you're a weirdo who races with chase cam

Guys this debate is entirely superfluous. Scawen knows that the tyre heating, wear and compound selection/behaviour are not finalised.

I agree on that statement, but I hope there are others in the same boat as me aswell

Quote from Rudy van Buren :

R1's might be a bit soft but thats not the only problem with tires in lfs,

With the enduro races with gtr's we always get heating up > cooling down > getting thin and faster and then get a puncture.

in real life a new tire normaly has 1 or 2 laps where its at its best > heats up > stays there > if you overheat it the graining starts the tires weares alot quicker and still doesnt cool down > get thin loose grip get the canvas through it and then pop.

Already looking at that you cant realy say if the r1's are to soft, becaus you just know even if the overheat alot in the first 10 laps, 20 laps later ( on a average size track ) the will be normal temp and very thin and alot faster then if you would have started on r2's wich are way to cold at that point.

edit: this system does work mostly for the road tires cuss the hardly cool down all the way.

Hmm, I hadn't really thought about that. I know that R1s get really good after the phase of horribleness from watching you do some long stints to get two or three amazing laps, but I'm not really sure how "wrong" that is compared to real life.

I still think the initial heat-up phase is too much for what is only one of three available tires (especially when the hardest tire is almost always completely useless, exceptions: oval hot-lapping and FXR).

Quote from AndroidXP :

You're just whining because you're a weirdo who races with chase cam

Guys this debate is entirely superfluous. Scawen knows that the tyre heating, wear and compound selection/behaviour are not finalised.

Well I partly made this thread just to see if I was right in my conclusions about R1s (or R2s when those are softest). Of course Scawen knows the situation, but his opinion may be that it's fine to have a really soft tire mostly used for hotlaps. I'd like to also know what other people think, maybe all three tires should be a lot closer to the middle grade. Less variation so that more choices actually make sense.

Quote from Deutschland2007 :

I didn´t have a S2 licence back then but I tried it last week, just for fun. Nearly all the setups had the softest available tyre compound and were very soft to make the tyres last. Was alot nicer to drive than with what we´ve got now. But the biggest problem for me is, in patch X I can keep the tyres in a sort of temperature window, which makes them usable for longer races. In patch Y and Z they just seem to get hotter and hotter and hotter, and it seems you can´t do anything about it.

You can. You can drive smoother, you can change the setup (tire presure/camber), you can choose different tyres. In long races you will see they cool down again when they start wearing out.