My iRacing subscription just ended recently and there is one thing I noticed that seems to be missing in LFS (or at least it's barely there). Every car I drove in iR would oversteer when lifting off the throttle, even the solstice would to some extent. Setup would make some difference but it was there most of the time.

I'm only a demo racer but I like the driving feel in LFS much more. Below the limit in iRacing the cars have some sort of point there go there handling if anyone knows what I mean. But the one thing that's bothering me is that I'm not getting any lift off oversteer in LFS. Even if the damper setup goes against it, don't basic car dynamics say that it should be there to some extent?

Please enlighten me, Thank You

you're demo dude... try the FZR, or in general the Single seaters with power and RWD GTR's

Just off the throttle? Or off the throttle on the brakes?

Also, Most cars on iRacing have open differentials.

Just off the throttle, I know most sports cars in RL will oversteer if you lift (also at higher rpm's engine braking should make it even more pronounced). As for the more powerful cars, they have downforce so I wouldn't really expect it as much in that case.

Blackwood and the demo cars don't lend themselves brilliantly to lift off oversteer, but it's definitely there.

Setup makes quite a difference, and as I tend to have an oversteery setup in the FWD cars, I often use lift-off oversteer to get round the final left-hander in BL.

Some other tracks and other cars (with the right setup) have more pronounced lift-off oversteer, but it depends on quite a few factors.

I see what you mean. I was driving the default FBM setup and it's there, but it's really subtle and gradual. I would have thought stiffening the rear ARB enough would lead to snappy off throttle oversteer but it didn't make as big a difference as I thought it would... In iR (the skippy for example) if you didn't stay on the throttle through the corner you'd end up sideways, it was especially noticable if the corner was entered too quickly. I'm just confused about what's right and what's not . Based on knowledge I've gathered and experience I would have thought that it would be easier to lose the back end by lifting off suddenly.. I guess I should just buy S2, I've been wanting to do that for awhile.

yes i would buy i didn't really know anything about cars and that but i bought like the next day and only playing for like 5 mins i wanted it and now i love it just shame i don't have a better PC to run 100 fps all time =)

Could it be that there is too much grip? I just watched some RL video's and in all of them the cars would snap fairly suddenly.

its in the diff son, and also they way most of us set the setups up. chuck an lsd or an open diff the xrg, you will see some lift off oversteer. i drive a v8 commodore cup car irl, and i dont get lift off oversteer, sure it helps turn, but it doesn't necessarily give me oversteer.
as for having too much grip, i find racing on lfs is like a simulation for a damp track irl, i reckon it has no grip at all!
oh, some specs about the cup car if it concerns you:
1340kg
spooled diff
full roll cage
dunlop formula r tyres (basically grooved slicks)
controlled sports suspension

just the basics...
anyway, basically what i'm saying is, my car won't generally lift off oversteer, unless i chuck the weight around a bit (weight transfering), it'll only oversteer when i step on the throttle or trail brake into a corner for too long

@ScoobRX; instead the ARB adjustment, try to soften front end bump or rear rebound dampers and try again if you want to more OS on entering the curves.

Use this fantastic tool to understand what you are doing (VHPA by Bob Smith).

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=294676#post294676

Keep in mind that:
The base setup for the FBM car is understeery
The near infinite adjustment possibilities we currently have will let you do almost anything with the cars (FWD that oversteer on throttle )

Quote from Mille Sabords :

FWD that oversteer on throttle

Good times, i used to have and XFG set like that. A bit of weight transfer and you could keep sideways for the whole corner (no handbrake 'ass dragging' needed.) Used to go onto demo drift servers and outscore people in the XRT

Anyway on topic, the lift off oversteer is there. The only corner on blackwood its noticeable is the very last corner as every other corner you need to brake for or don't lift off.

it's definitely there. Either its your setup, or you are not driving fast enough. And honestly the demo cars has TONS of grips.

btw, Its very interesting that you paid for an iRacing subscription not didn't buy a S2 license.
How much does an iRacing subscription costs?

Same thing I noticed a long time ago. I tested a lot with XF GTI.

In RL this often causes accidents. People go fast in a corner and suddenly have to brake hard. This way even a FWD understeery (setup) car will oversteer with weight shifted hard to the front and backend getting very light, while inner tires begin to lock.

Not so in LFS. You can go around on the test track. It is very very hard to provoke real oversteer by braking or just lifting.

Even electronic systems were adjusted in RL to avoid such things. Corner Brake Control (CBC) will look after inner wheels to prevent them sperate from locking/slipping.

Cheers
RIP

Quote from ScoobRX :

My iRacing subscription just ended recently and there is one thing I noticed that seems to be missing in LFS (or at least it's barely there). Every car I drove in iR would oversteer when lifting off the throttle, even the solstice would to some extent. Setup would make some difference but it was there most of the time.

I'm only a demo racer but I like the driving feel in LFS much more. Below the limit in iRacing the cars have some sort of point there go there handling if anyone knows what I mean. But the one thing that's bothering me is that I'm not getting any lift off oversteer in LFS. Even if the damper setup goes against it, don't basic car dynamics say that it should be there to some extent?

Please enlighten me, Thank You

next patch...

or the one after that...

W.I.P lfs needs time

Thanks to everyone for the setup tips, and that tool is great

@ [DUck], I would assume that cars with slicks are less prone to such behavior, especially with downforce . That's why I thought there was too much grip, plus the XFG is doing 1.2 G's on a factory style setup (no ARB's open diff and 20N/mm suspension) which is definately weird. Got that with F1PerfView. After adding a rear bar I started to get lift oversteer, but it was still too subtle. The rear end would sort of sway out slowly, and only if you continued keeping the wheel turned would it begin to [slowly] snap away. Far more managable than RL considering all the effort I had to put into recovery was to turn the wheel less. Like RIP2004 said even understeer prone cars should have noticable LO. For example, I know for a fact that Impreza's have lift oversteer with the factory suspension and it's a pretty understeer prone car otherwise.

NSX FReeDoM: Technically my susbscription cost $0, I got the free radical trial. But then I ended up buying the skippy on top of that. I didn't renew because I wansn't convinced the price was worth it. There is something off about the way the cars drive.

Quote from ScoobRX :

Thanks to everyone for the setup tips, and that tool is great

@ [DUck], I would assume that cars with slicks are less prone to such behavior, especially with downforce . That's why I thought there was too much grip, plus the XFG is doing 1.2 G's on a factory style setup (no ARB's open diff and 20N/mm suspension) which is definately weird. Got that with F1PerfView. After adding a rear bar I started to get lift oversteer, but it was still too subtle. The rear end would sort of sway out slowly, and only if you continued keeping the wheel turned would it begin to [slowly] snap away. Far more managable than RL considering all the effort I had to put into recovery was to turn the wheel less. Like RIP2004 said even understeer prone cars should have noticable LO. For example, I know for a fact that Impreza's have lift oversteer with the factory suspension and it's a pretty understeer prone car otherwise.

NSX FReeDoM: Technically my susbscription cost $0, I got the free radical trial. But then I ended up buying the skippy on top of that. I didn't renew because I wansn't convinced the price was worth it. There is something off about the way the cars drive.

Another thing to note, iRacing in pretty much all the cars I have driven, seems to tend to have a lot of throttle steer. The Formula Ford pretty much demands partial throttle through corners to stop you from spinning.

The diff is the main factor in throttle steer although the overall balance does play a roll too. My nearly stock BMW with an open diff will exhibit throttle steer quite nicely, but it is not extreme and is very easy to control. The car, like most stock cars, is setup for quite a bit of understeer. You can really use the throttle steering to help you through corners (and I have a lot of track time in this car, so this isn't just street driving we are talking about).

So, like others have said, LFS does a nice job of throttle steer if you have the right setup. In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, iRacing goes a bit far with throttle steer. A lot of those cars would be down right scary to drive if they really behaved like that. I don't know if that is because they don't have fully modeled diffs yet, or if they have a flaw in the physics, but that's my impression. I am probably wrong about that, but the point is, iRacing cars exhibit a whole lot of throttle steer so coming to something like LFS, it can seem like throttle steer isn't modeled.

Quote from ScoobRX :

My iRacing subscription just ended recently and there is one thing I noticed that seems to be missing in LFS (or at least it's barely there). Every car I drove in iR would oversteer when lifting off the throttle, even the solstice would to some extent. Setup would make some difference but it was there most of the time.

I'm only a demo racer but I like the driving feel in LFS much more. Below the limit in iRacing the cars have some sort of point there go there handling if anyone knows what I mean. But the one thing that's bothering me is that I'm not getting any lift off oversteer in LFS. Even if the damper setup goes against it, don't basic car dynamics say that it should be there to some extent?

Please enlighten me, Thank You

Probably the front is too stiff or the diff has too high a locking percentage for the coast setting. Or you might have too much rear rebound.

I found that LFS has enormously stiff settings - the range is very biased towards stiff direction. As for road going cars (ie. taken from service manual) settings would be at the soft bound - therefore weight transfers are very small. As said before make your set softer and minimally damped.
Second thing is diff - you can set LSD with coast side set to maximum and you will have lot of engine braking on driven axis.
Wheel geometry and antiroll can make set more oversteery but you mentioned reaction on throttle off, not the, as I say - raw - "throttle off-clutch on", oversteery/understeery setting of the car.

actually in iracing the only car i found to have tremendous amounts of lift throttle oversteer was the SPEC FORD RACER{i have the skip and radical also} . being only demo for the moment in lfs you have xrg/xfg then fbmw try going to setupgrid.net for set ups as the default set up usually bite arse and understeer. you can get alot of lift throttle oversteer in the fbm and the xfg prolly the xrg too but i wouldnt want that in that car http://www.setupgrid.net/1/setup/hotlap/get/FBM@BL1 try the ones that say oversterry and gl with those get s2 and try the RACEABOUT youll love the lift oversteer in that car or the caterhams. but again its mostly in the setup in iracing you cant changed diffs.

Quote from Hallen :

In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, iRacing goes a bit far with throttle steer. A lot of those cars would be down right scary to drive if they really behaved like that. I don't know if that is because they don't have fully modeled diffs yet, or if they have a flaw in the physics, but that's my impression. I am probably wrong about that, but the point is, iRacing cars exhibit a whole lot of throttle steer so coming to something like LFS, it can seem like throttle steer isn't modeled.

I notice it too, but I find that I can be much more deliberate about it in iR and it's much more sensitive to it. I still think LFS goofy setups may have a lot to do with that (by that I mean the anomalous setups aliens use to go fast in LFS). Your BMW also has a relatively low power:weight ratio in comparison to something like the skip. I found driving the legends on road tracks to be the epitome of throttle steering goodness, which seems very much in line with NikiMere's experience in the car. If you dig up the video he posted of him driving one in a race, you get the impression that it feels very much like the iR version and it looks damn fun

Just some thoughts.

Most of the setups I've made with lift off oversteer have full blown oversteer, that is if you just turn while coasting the car will spin regardless of whether or not weight was transferred forward. So it's simply oversteer not lift oversteer. And as I've already mentioned, even cars that understeer can lose rear traction if you suddenly let off the throttle so I'm convinced some aspect of the physics isn't the way it should be.

Quote from ANAMENOONEHAD :

actually in iracing the only car i found to have tremendous amounts of lift throttle oversteer was the SPEC FORD RACER{i have the skip and radical also} . being only demo for the moment in lfs you have xrg/xfg then fbmw try going to setupgrid.net for set ups as the default set up usually bite arse and understeer. you can get alot of lift throttle oversteer in the fbm and the xfg prolly the xrg too but i wouldnt want that in that car http://www.setupgrid.net/1/setup/hotlap/get/FBM@BL1 try the ones that say oversterry and gl with those get s2 and try the RACEABOUT youll love the lift oversteer in that car or the caterhams. but again its mostly in the setup in iracing you cant changed diffs.

Thanks for the setup site.. As for iRacing I agree that the SRF was pretty annoying to drive because of that. I found that the solstice has noticeable lift oversteer too. Just turn it tight in an open area and let off, it does a 180 if you're in first . It's not really noticeable when you're racing. I couldn't drive the skippy through most corners without keeping some throttle on, must have been your setup.

Quote from ScoobRX :

Most of the setups I've made with lift off oversteer have full blown oversteer, that is if you just turn while coasting the car will spin regardless of whether or not weight was transferred forward. So it's simply oversteer not lift oversteer. And as I've already mentioned, even cars that understeer can lose rear traction if you suddenly let off the throttle so I'm convinced some aspect of the physics isn't the way it should be.

Well, AndRand and GF already pretty much summed this up. You're looking at this from a very simplistic standpoint. I don't think that there's anything wrong with LFSs physics that would tune out "lift off oversteer" to a noticable degree, it's all about weight transfer and that's pretty hard to shit up math wise to be honest. If there was anything in terms of physics modelling to blame for it; the (front) tires simply would not have enough grip or there could be load sensitivity issues in the tire model somewhere. However iR's "point there go there" (as you put it) feel at lower speeds is probably for the same reason (if there is one in terms of inate physics difference) that you think it simulates "lift of oversteer" better.

Quote from [DUcK] :

its in the diff son, and also they way most of us set the setups up. chuck an lsd or an open diff the xrg, you will see some lift off oversteer. i drive a v8 commodore cup car irl, and i dont get lift off oversteer, sure it helps turn, but it doesn't necessarily give me oversteer.
as for having too much grip, i find racing on lfs is like a simulation for a damp track irl, i reckon it has no grip at all!
oh, some specs about the cup car if it concerns you:
1340kg
spooled diff

A locked or spool differential has inherent understeer. The outside tire is trying to speed up and the inside is trying to slow down relative to the chassis speed. Thus, negative (rearward) forces are applied to the outside of the car and positive (forward) forces are applied to the inside of the car, turning the car to the outside.

For the Formula 3 cars that my school runs at Infineon Raceway with viscous differentials, they expressly caution you NOT to lift during the 130 MPH esses. It will be a big bill.

Quote from MadCat360 :

A locked or spool differential has inherent understeer. The outside tire is trying to speed up and the inside is trying to slow down relative to the chassis speed. Thus, negative (rearward) forces are applied to the outside of the car and positive (forward) forces are applied to the inside of the car, turning the car to the outside.

yah, i know
it just seemed that the op thought that any car would lift-off-oversteer no matter what diff it had