Probably been brought up before, but probably closed before anyone can make a point.

Would it be possible, in the future of LFS, to be able to have a selection of user created cars and tracks? I was also thinking of how long the 'rocco is taking, don't you think it would help for the community to bring some new cars in to help the devs expand LFS? What if it's all controlled and kept to S2 users only?

For example, Have a special section of the forum dedicated to modding the main parts of live for speed that requires S2 to access, to prevent spam from demo users asking for cars 100 times etc. Here mods can be submitted and people can test them offline for bugs. After they've been checked and feedback is given they should be forwarded to either the devs or "Modding Moderators" Who will check over the mod and make sure it is suitable for online use.

I just think that LFS, IMO, is getting a bit boring with the same cars and tracks, and when a new car is announced it seems to take forever to be released. I know that only three people work on LFS, so a long development time is expected, but this seems just too long.

*puts flamesuit on*
*gets out spam-swatter*

Post you opinions and ideas... I know this has been brought up before, but maybe not with as much thought put into it.

Did you master ALL cars on at least ONE track?

Look at rFactor. They even have 'user ratings', and even crap ones can get 90% scores.

The Scirocco isn't taking all this time - other things, possibly initially related to it, but also important for everything else in the sim are more likely to be the cause of the delay in the end.

If LFS is boring, play something else. When LFS is updated you'll be informed via the wonderment of a mailing list.

Quote :

when a new car is announced it seems to take forever to be released

A little unfair. Most don't take any time at all. Just this one, and as I said, I very much doubt it's the car that's causing the delay, but other stuff in LFS that needs to be right. Let's pretend it's brake temps. Scawen wanted to have them ready for the Scirocco release, but there was something wrong with the technique that broke other stuff, so all the other cars are also broken. In the process of fixing those, and adding other new features when the opportunity arises, the Scirocco sits there having no work done to it, but can't be released until the patch in which it goes is finished.


Anyway, I'm against modding support.

Ok, fair enough there is more to the 'rocco being held up than the car itself. And i'm glad you took the time to put together a decent argument against the idea. I just thought a bit of variety would be cool.

User mods will not be able to maintain the high level of quality. And the developers wish to work on this game alone.

Quote from RasmusL :

User mods will not be able to maintain the high level of quality. And the developers wish to work on this game alone.

That's why i said they should be checked over, so only the best are put into the game. And I never knew the devs wanted to work on this alone.. that's interesting. Thanks for the input.

Official modding support could also render Scavier vulnerable to legal problems
Still, LFS's cars and tracks really are a bit "static", subtle changes to the tracks every now and then and a facelift for the cars every 2 years (giving the user the option to choose which year's edition to drive, so the skins fit) or so would be nice.

Quote from morpha :

Official modding support could also render Scavier vulnerable to legal problems

I suppose there is that... maybe we could just make "look a likes" .. or simply edit features of the originals, like the popular XRT Sleepy Eyes. I don't see problems releasing ones like those, but again, they'll have to be checked over, and possibly be an option similar to LX's "roof up", XRT could have a "lights up/down", and other things similar to that.

Just to add that one of the things mentioned as an idea (and NOT AS A PROMISE) was opening LFS to modding once official development was finished, or at the earliest at some point during S3's life.

It would need to be checked by people - probably hand picked from the community. There would also need to be a decent way of updating mods, so that you don't have to trawl the net looking for a link to V1.03 of a mod when you've got 1.02. This would have to be backed up by a central download centre (a bit like rFactorCentral, but well run, and without download limits), and those cost money.

I would hope that Scavier charges for their mod kits, and/or charges for allowing mods (perhaps as a licence title - S3M licenced?) to cover the costs of providing a decent service.

Community run, free modding sites are nearly always pants, and cause more problems than they solve.

I have no issues with modding as long as it's not required for racing, but taking time off other things to maintain modding compatibility across test/alpha/beta versions is something I don't want to see. If it's in, hopefully in a final version, preferably S3.

Quote from tristancliffe :

(a bit like rFactorCentral, but well run, and without download limits), and those cost money.

True, everything you've mention is correct, but maybe the modding would add a new element to the game, make it more popular, and more people would buy the licence = more money , i know it's more complicated than that but you get what i mean.

I would rather keep LFS the way it is and NOT allow modding. Allowing mods online are always a pain in the ass(talking about other games that allow mods); not everyone has the same mods. Like rigs of rods; theres SO many mods for that game its not even funny. You can use these mods online, but if someone else doesnt have the mod, or you don't have someone else's mod; you or they are invisible, then online is completely useless. Or Microsoft Flight Simulator; if you don't have the person's mod, you can still see them. It just substitutes the mod for something you already have, usually something not even close to the plane really is. I got really tired of it substituting ALL the planes I didn't have with only the aircraft carrier...

Its too late though, people have already made car mods for LFS. They're illegal to use, but people are using them anyway. If those mods were made legal, I would probably stop playing LFS. Im extremely picky about mods anyways; if I download a mod for any game, it has to at LEAST be as good quality as the game's original content... We don't need to ruin LFS with a bunch of low quality, junk mods...

That's why this thread is here, to pick out possible problems, You mention about the online, maybe there should be special servers for a certain collection of mods? Or just not allow them online publically at all, maybe keep them to private servers and LAN games.
And there would have to be a way of checking mods for quality if they were to be released, keep out the riff-raff as it were

I love lfs, because it has no car and track mods. If there was, the handling of the cars will not match the carmodel etc... The cars are just perfect! There are lots af racing games/sim's that allow car/track mods! This is one of those things that LFS make special.

Can I just chip in with the old "diluting of the userbase" issue. Try finding a combo you like now. Imagine the chances of that happening with 10 or 100 times the content.

I'll pass.

I'm completely "for" modding on LFS. I must admit that i have tryed the latest rage (im sure some of you know what im talking about) that has hit LFS, but after a while, it sucked because theres always bugs with them and it actually decrease's the fun factor of LFS.

To further my point...I would only like to see modding come to LFS once the game is near completion. This would be so that as much of LFS's bugs are fixed. As mentioned before, it would also be better if the mods get rated and picked by certain people (i.e the Moderators), so that we know we are downloading a high quality mod, and not some buggy piece of trash.

I want a feature in lfs where you can modify small things of the car ingame, like spoilers, rims and exhausts.
(I also like to see some new cars/tracks, like every season?, but by the devs)

Quote from magux :

I want a feature in lfs where you can modify small things of the car ingame, like spoilers, rims and exhausts.

I'm not even going there. I don't think it qualifies for a C&P alert, so you should consider yourself very lucky, magux

Modding isn't a bad idea and it's very possible that LFS will see modding at some point in the future. But it's still a work-in-progress. I'm fairly confident in saying that the Scirocco is still held up due to the implementation of the DSG system. And that's just one system that isn't finished. There's a whole range of other parts that are in a maybe 90%-complete state.

If modding was allowed, car modders would have to update their stuff every time a new feature was added. Things they were compensating for before would be simulated and therefor would be really wrong. Likewise, what might be a small mod to the internal LFS car physics might be a massive change to something that a random person created. That way leads to frustration.

Version-checking is another potential minefield. Making sure that every client is running the latest version of a modded track or car is frustrating. And multiple versions of the same track is a nightmare for users. Which version of the 'Ring (and don't doubt there would be dozens, if not hundreds) is the right one for that server?

And that doesn't even touch on working out the quality of the mods. As previously mentioned, even crap mods can get high user ratings if they have enough friends.

Can't blame Scawen for delaying all of that as long as possible

I play LFS because it DOESN'T ALLOW modding and it's the only sim where I can enjoy high quality on-line racing at any time with people from anywhere.

I play RF because it ALLOWS modding and it's the only sim I go to when I need something which can simulate a real situation (combo).

LFS won't be LFS if it allows modding, and RF won't be RF if it doesn't. They are 2 different types of racing simulation.

Thanks for all the useful input... I'm suprised i haven't been turned to ashes for bringing this up

Why do many people think of modding as: modding = low qaulety buggy sh*t. And for making sure people are updated. Why not let people who join a server, download the mod from the hosting server? Just like in call of duty. But instead of modding I'd rather see the ability to tune car engines (valve timing, etc. bit like chiptuning only) and bigger forces wear the engine down quicker.

I suggested something similar with regards to car mods. Rather than download an entire big folder full of stuff, just a couple of files that use the systems already present in LFS.

Have the car model hosted on the server, which you download (around the size of a skin) when you join.
Drivetrain data is applied to the car using the same system that was available as a download for the demo cars (where you choose from the I4, V8, RWD, AWD, etc) from a file also hosted on the server (a few kb). I forget the name.

Simple. Then give the option to either keep or delete a custom car on disconnect or shutdown and you'd be sorted.

Quote from Dajmin :

I suggested something similar with regards to car mods. Rather than download an entire big folder full of stuff, just a couple of files that use the systems already present in LFS.

Have the car model hosted on the server, which you download (around the size of a skin) when you join.
Drivetrain data is applied to the car using the same system that was available as a download for the demo cars (where you choose from the I4, V8, RWD, AWD, etc) from a file also hosted on the server (a few kb). I forget the name.

Simple. Then give the option to either keep or delete a custom car on disconnect or shutdown and you'd be sorted.

That's a great idea.. Never thought of it like that. Nice one.

Quote from morpha :

Official modding support could also render Scavier vulnerable to legal problems
Still, LFS's cars and tracks really are a bit "static", subtle changes to the tracks every now and then and a facelift for the cars every 2 years (giving the user the option to choose which year's edition to drive, so the skins fit) or so would be nice.

It wouldn't leave them vulnerable if it was fictional content such as new fictional cars that are semi-obvious takeoffs of real cars, evolutions of existing road cars and street circuits based on actual roads but not fictional. Or people could get permission from things like local kart tracks and shed special builders. Not a completely insurmountable problem.

I thought that you didn't need permission for mods, providing they were supplied for free, and the person made them from scratch.