Quote from Intrepid :

Depends who's doing it!

Quote from 5haz :

Quite right, depends on who you're squeezing, squeeze the wrong person and you'll be on the recieving end of a slap.

Don't think that is what Intrepid was trying to say exactly, (well not just that maybe).

Quote from keiran :

Technically it's twice, your allowed to move once to defend and then you're allowed to move back to the racing line.

Well however many times it is, that particular ruling is about unsporting "blocking" whilst in front of the other car.

I'm asking in what way and when is squeezing a car out, (ie giving them the option of either braking or getting run off the circuit to avoid contact), when beside them ever legitimate??

I'm not talking about drivers attempting overtaking in to gaps that they know full well are diminishing due to the normal racing line of the driver in front. I'm refering to the movement across a straight section of the track of one driver whilst substantially overlapped with another in order to force them to "back off" or end up off the track.

Wasn't sporting when Hamilton did it to Webber, so I don't see how it was when Vettel did it to Button. And no I don't see it as a matter of degrees. To my mind unless you are fully infront of the car in question and it can be considered a legitmate blocking move, it's not acceptable behaviour.

Quote from gezmoor :

Don't think that is what Intrepid was trying to say exactly, (well not just that maybe).

I know. :rolleyes:

Quote from gezmoor :

Well however many times it is, that particular ruling is about unsporting "blocking" whilst in front of the other car.

I'm asking in what way and when is squeezing a car out, (ie giving them the option of either braking or getting run off the circuit to avoid contact), when beside them ever legitimate??

It's one move off "the line", hence the name. You cannot move back afterwards. Zig or zag, but not zig-zag.
You rejoin the line in the corner.

"Squeezing" a car in the way you mention is never legal on a straight. Button had to yield because it was technically a corner, and his overlap was insufficient for Vettel to either A:know he was there, or B: be required to leave him space.

Basically there could have been a collision, Button was the one in the position to see it coming and/or avoid it, and had there been contact it could have been argued that it was Button's fault because he wasn't far enough alongside Vettel.

Quote from carey :

What if you’re already offline?

If a driver finds himself offline, then he is already defending the position. If your recovering from a mistake then 9/10 your going to aim to get to the inside to try hold your position.

Quote from DevilDare :

Actually, it is once.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sxg39qPaA8

Yes, your allowed to move once to defend but you can then move back to the racing line. What the move once to defend rule stops is people weaving across the track. Martin has mentioned numerous times during coverage of races, and it's pretty much standard practice in any form of motorsport.

Quote from gezmoor :

I'm asking in what way and when is squeezing a car out, (ie giving them the option of either braking or getting run off the circuit to avoid contact), when beside them ever legitimate??

If you try to do the wall of death around the outside of someone then your always going to be the one ending up on the grass. That's why smart racing drivers don't put themselves in those situations.

Quote from keiran :

If you try to do the wall of death around the outside of someone then your always going to be the one ending up on the grass. That's why smart racing drivers don't put themselves in those situations.

+1000

The problem is Keiran sim racing etiquette has given some a false sense of what real racing is like. You go for the wall of death in reality you crash, you learn your lesson, and thus order is restored.

In sim your rewarded for taking the wall of death because the guy on the outside is NEVER blamed for any accident ever hence why on several occasions I deliberatly turn in on people so they don't overtake. Aint like i'm 'in the wrong'

Part of the problem with sim racing is that they think you don't have to yeild when a car goes up the inside. They don't realise in Formula 1 for instance, you yeild because you don't want a cause a crash. If someone dives up the inside you yeild because you don't want to be taken out, of course being taken out in sim racing doesn't hold the same concequences, but to me GPL is one of the best sims for racing ettiquette because you need alot of room to move these cars around, which makes it 10x more rewarding, when you get real close to other guys.

Quote from carey :

What if it's a wet race and you're taking the wet (or karting) line?

The karting line is basically the middle of the track/a bit to the left, so I fail to see your argument. Whatever line you are taking consistently is your racing line...

Quote :

That's why alot of smart drivers don't achieve brilliant results.

There was me thinking Schumacher was 7 time WDC, Alonso 2 time WDC and Ayrton Senna 3 time WDC. All drivers who rarely found/find themselves hung out to dry on the outside of a corner.

Only time you will pass someone around the outside is if you can get your car ahead at the turn in point because then you force the driver on the inside to give you room.

Quote :

Sim racing etiquette? I’ve honestly only ever had one evening where I found myself with a bunch of guys (or gals) that where giving each other racing room. The rest of the time people cut each other up, as it sounds like you enjoy doing, and ram each other whether it’s in a braking zone or defending at the start of a straight.

There's a difference between racers who have paid £24 to play the game and ones who pay nothing. Every night I log on to LFS and race I can have close battles with minimal contact.

Quote from carey :

That's why alot of smart drivers don't achieve brilliant results.

Sim racing etiquette? I’ve honestly only ever had one evening where I found myself with a bunch of guys (or gals) that where giving each other racing room. The rest of the time people cut each other up, as it sounds like you enjoy doing, and ram each other whether it’s in a braking zone or defending at the start of a straight.

1. Then they aint smart

2. With all due respect your a demo racer.

Quote from carey :

where the rubber gets laid down

in the wet? No, the racing line is usually anywhere but there (except in slow corners, where shortest distance counts more than greatest grip). And of course there are exceptions.

The racing line is where people drive. That varies with car, power, weather etc.

Quote from carey :

So it isn't where everyone else goes, and where the rubber gets laid down (I can see this is going to be a productive conversation).

Tristan pretty much summed it up. The racing line is the quickest line around the circuit at that given time. Not sure whether there's a need for a dig, your on a open forum so conversations usually take place with many opinions .

Quote :

I was thinking of the likes of Kimi, you know, the type who does his talking on the track (for example when Lewis said after Hungary last year that he would never be overtaken around the outside again after being shamed by Felipe then Kimi did it to him at Spa).

I fail to see how that corresponds to your argument that "smart drivers don't achieve brilliant results."

I've listed you some of the drivers I feel have shown very clever race craft in their careers and you come up with Kimi...

Quote :

Well you have to pay for Xbox live and it's the exact same thing on there.

I think your missing the point... Racing on licensed servers there is more incentive to race cleanly otherwise you will find yourself banned. Banned by your username and often server admins will share the name of problem people so they find themselves quickly banned from all the major servers.

Whilst demo has this feature, all you do is make a new email and then make a new account. Pain in the ass, but there are kids out there with nothing else better to do.

Quote from carey :

Well Martin Brundle has said that he's never met a stupid racing driver (in regards to Formula 1).

Were talking in relative terms, F1 drivers are far from stupid.

Quote :

I've heard a lot of licensed users say the same thing.

And I personally find a lot of the drivers who complain are the ones who get involved in the accidents. If someone turns me around by accident, I don't stop and cry, I get on with the race and enjoy the climb back through the field. If these guys actually raced in real life they'd probably spend half their races crying to the stewards in the pits.

Quote :

They aren't completely different lines though, more variations even between drivers (although somewhat slightly).

The variations in line is probably half a foot at most, not really an adequate amount to class it as a different racing line.

Quote :

Peter Sauber said that Kimi needed to get technical and Lewis has admitted himself that he finds F1 complicated.

End of the day Kimi's job is to drive the car as quickly as it can, these days with all the telementary the engineers will have a good idea with the drivers feedback where the car is struggling.

Quote :

I was going to post this and then rather cheekily say that if Intrepid was in the car he would have turned in on Michael and rolled, and that if you where Kimi you wouldn't have overtaken around the outside on the final lap, so your drive through the field would have been to second (and Ron Dennis wouldn't have cried) and you can see why I thought better of it last night.

I'm not talking of moves like that and nor probably is Intrepid. In both those instances Alonso and Kimi were fully alongside and had a good run at the driver. The driver on the inside doesn't have the high ground so can't muscle them off the road.

When your car is hanging around the rear axle of the guy on the inside as your exiting a corner, you will always be run off the track.