The online racing simulator
Eighteen pages...

As much as I welcome a good league administration, I think this rulebook + the discussion I'm seeing here will lead from, and I don't mean to offend anyone, an amateur-endurance-league-ran-by-amateur-admins to a very-professional-endurance-league-aimed-at-unexperienced-drivers-who-have-no-life-outside-LFS.

I also think that in the end, at least on the first races, half of the grid will have no idea of the actual rules because they a) couldn't bother reading it or b) read it superficially and forgot most of it. And then those who really took the effort to read and understand will suffer anyway.

I'm not saying what is good or bad, just thinking about it. What I know for sure is that I got very happy when NDR stepped up and now I find myself not wanting to take part. Not that it matters much, as I see some people are indeed interested.

I'm just sad, there's so much effort these days enforcing things that racing itself is just an extra.
#102 - CSF
Sure, but people are willing to cheat...

I'm sure there is one sad person out there that would buy a new account and pretend they are slow, just for the e-penis later. Infact I can think of one that did so that was back 6 months ago part of a team that knows nothing about it now. :P
I agree, though you could remove all of the BS stuff and make the font size a bit smaller and it would be better. In fact, you could go with the adage of removing half the words then removing half of what's left, and still be left with enough meaning to allow the racing to run smoothly!
I just want to show up, qualify and race; not wait a week/a day between sessions! I like qualifying in that it's quite short and tense. 1 hour 45 mins of quali seems too much to me, if I'm honest. The half hour extreme sessions were more fun and also frustrating, which is what the league should be about; being absolutely on the edge of control but not over the edge. Giving the drivers nearly 2 hours to hotlap and smash into barriers isn't right; you might as well just take hotlaps from LFSW. It's too easy! Just my insight there.
What if a driver, has 1 round of IGTC experience, but the team in which participated no longer exsist.
This is just my curious knowledge ive participted in a round of IGTC well a half hour atleast, before a blowout sent me into a wall and race over, but anyway apart from my fail.
I was wondering if i would still be eligable to race.
And drivers without teams anyway to help them into racing in this?
Well teams don't do the driving, drivers do so that is why it's the level of drivers and not the teams matter. If this was last season you would not be able to drive, though if we were still using last year's rule you would be able to this season. The proposed rules would mean you would not be allowed to race unless you showed yourself to be at an "amateur level".

And yes, I think a privateer's team would be a good idea or a "team" setup just for GTAL would be allowed I'm sure.
I think that if a driver can prove that his IGTC or MoE experience was a complete failure, he should be allowed into GTAL.
Quote from evilpimp :I think that if a driver can prove that his IGTC or MoE experience was a complete failure, he should be allowed into GTAL.

CSF for GTAL then?




jks jks
Okay, let's see if I can answer some of these things without ranting about something, but this will still be a doctorate thesis. :P

First off, the NDR Sporting code has almost everything that has become common to our events, so that it doesn't have to be repeated again and again and again and again and again. It also contains our standards expected. Naming format is simple. We want your number, with a space, then F.Last. We won't nitpick a space or not between drivers, that's really just stupidly strict. We want it in a grey colour for easy of looking when in, say, qualifying or for LFSStats use on other leagues.

I'm actually now pondering changing the qualie system. I prefer the two spread out ones because it spread out the admin workload, and also will let teams have some extra time to switch from qualifying mode to race mode. I did the longer times to allow a bit more time to set a lap, and that's why I scrapped the No ShiftP/S stuff. But, my thought now is, is keep the session times the same, but Sunday is simply an organized free practice, and the only qualifying is on Friday. But that'll stay up in the air. After some thought on it also, the qualifying driver(s) must start in the race will be implemented.

I don't like limiting strategy choices, and since we'll have diferent race lenghts for a few more rounds this season, I didn't wish to risk any confusion there either.

IRC is an internet relay chat, and really can use minimal resources and allow a team manager or somesuch not on track to be in it and Remote etc. It's there so we can send messages and penalties and discuss the race with teams without us having to procure a 300 slot Vent server to park everyone in.

We will not monitor driver side things, that's also nit-picky. The Sporting Code covers modifications, etc. No player hacker, and nothing that edits the natural performance of the car (I'd classify VOB mods as affecting the natural performance of the car since they change the natural car, iirc)

Safety Cars will not be called for just anything. Generally, for this, they will be called for a beached car or a car out of fuel on track, or a car upside down, or a major incident that involves a majority of the cars on course or will pose a severe risk of affecting other cars within more than a short space of time, as in, it takes a long while for cars to clear the scene and begin moving again. SCs add another element of strategy to Endurance racing, which is what is needed. There's a great element of luck with SCs implemented, but there's always luck in racing.

Our goal is to keep the amateur status for participation there, while running the league in a professional manner to help prepare drivers for IGTC or MoE should they advance to it or to keep the racing as clean as possible. We wish to see drivers who have already got experience, but not the IGTC/MoE level of experience that would be needed for those.

Also, the rulebook is only 18 pages because of things learned from the other series that we run and the other Endurance series. Rulebooks, on my view, are meant simply to be the guidelines for runnign the races and deciding on conflicts. It is my desire to never have to enforce or use over half of what I put in the rulebook. I much prefer the racing on track to spending my evenings and days following a race reviewing incidents and protests and screwing with the results after the race. But the rules are there to provide an as clear as possible explanation for what to do when something happens. I don't expect anyone to know the rules by heart, or never have to reference them. I just expect that teams and drivers have a basic, general knowledge of what the deals are and can put them to use on the track. Of course, we'll always remind of the common ones, and we will remind when needed. We also do tend to issue warnings for rule infractions before a full out penalty, at least early in the season. Even I don't have the rules memorized, so I can't expect it to be done by anyone else.

Rules, for this, and any other thing, anywhere, are just there to be the standard set of actions to take in reaction to the initial action. They are NOT there for us admins to choke off the ability to race freely, they are NOT there for us to be uberpower-hungry admins. They're there so we have guidlines to work off of when we need to, as they are there for you.

d
18 pages is not that much at all. Took me 10 minuts of reading after a 2 minute diagonal scope. A lot could indeed be put shorter or get skipped, but I see no need for that. Amateur league or not, I like and want a professional organisation. Rulebooks and briefings are also part of real life racing, just like they're part of LFS. I enjoyed seeing the first edition of the rulebook and being able to shape it, gives me envolvement in the leauge and joy; makes me looking forward to be able to race as professional as the big shots, in endurance style, but of course 5 seconds a lap slower .

Quote :I just want to show up, qualify and race; not wait a week/a day between sessions! I like qualifying in that it's quite short and tense. 1 hour 45 mins of quali seems too much to me, if I'm honest. The half hour extreme sessions were more fun and also frustrating, which is what the league should be about; being absolutely on the edge of control but not over the edge. Giving the drivers nearly 2 hours to hotlap and smash into barriers isn't right; you might as well just take hotlaps from LFSW. It's too easy! Just my insight there.

I agree with the above quote. Qualifications just before the race is fun and less predictable. Not to mention it makes organising our (amateur endurance) teams a lot more easier ! It also allows for some better contact between the racers; most will show up a bit ealier for the qualify and then can chat a bit, mess around the track, ect... (eg. like in the latest IGTC event), followed up by a tense qualify, a little break and then a professional and undoubtful great endurance race!

:eclipsee_
Quote from GianniC :(eg. like in the latest IGTC event)

That was just madness though

I agree with Passo to a certain extent, but the whole idea of the series is to get people prepared for progressing to IGTC and MoE. My time in GTAL, as unsuccessful it was, taught me how to drive a decent stint in a GTR. That experience helped me tons for the IGTC stint I did.

I agree with the qualifying sessions though, it should be just prior to the race as in IGTC.
#112 - CSF
Quote from pearcy_2k7 :CSF for GTAL then?




jks jks



Last IGTC was fine though, just sloooooooower than practice by a mile.
I fully agree with Yann and Tommy. What Yann is saying should be put forward, with people given exceptions from their ability, seperating aliens from the averages. Just to use myself as an example, I was always third choice for the GTAL team in the team that I ran, while we only ever had two people racing, so I never got to drive in it because I wasn't 'good enough' for my team. Then the team closed and I moved on to StarLite with Jack Ward, who was on the GTAL team at my team, and we at StarLite got a place in the IGTC in round 6.
Jack was obviously first choice because he is the best in the team at endurance racing and I was also asked to drive. We had a eventful race and we were running fairly high up after starting 22nd and we finished 13th.
For people like me, I still feel I should be allowed drive in GTAL because I wasn't good enough for my teams roster during this season and it was only by chance I got a IGTC which I might not get next season, and then I wont be eligable for GTAL
It totally depends on your amount of experience, and how you fared in that time. Your one race wasn't so successful, so you would probably be permitted to race in the GTAL. But for example, Rik De Jong. He has had 3 or 4 races in the IGTC (AFAIK) and has been flying. He obviously won't be permitted to race.

If you have ANY experience at all in either IGTC or MoE, you would have to come to us before you drive, and ask if you will be permitted.
Quote from Wilko868 :It totally depends on your amount of experience, and how you fared in that time. Your one race wasn't so successful, so you would probably be permitted to race in the GTAL. But for example, Rik De Jong. He has had 3 or 4 races in the IGTC (AFAIK) and has been flying. He obviously won't be permitted to race.

If you have ANY experience at all in either IGTC or MoE, you would have to come to us before you drive, and ask if you will be permitted.

Sounds great to me Just a quick one, if I dont drive the next IGTC race (and not the starting MoE rounds :P), Will I then be able to drive GTAL, as I havent driven in IGTC/MoE then? (not that I will, its just interesting to know xD)
Quote from Tomhah :Sounds great to me Just a quick one, if I dont drive the next IGTC race (and not the starting MoE rounds :P), Will I then be able to drive GTAL, as I havent driven in IGTC/MoE then? (not that I will, its just interesting to know xD)

Yes, you will be permitted to drive in the GTAL.
Right, so I just figured I'd try to proove another time how this "no-IGTC" driver rule is so unproductive for endurance racing...

Okay, so as everyone saw, the 2009 IGTC season saw a lot of withdrawns coming from important well-established teams, because they couldn't keep enough interrest behind the scene. This gave a slot at the end of the season to the ex-iCON Team(The Road Crew nowadays), last on the reserve list, and to two new brand new entrants, Starlite and SRLT.

Let me refresh your memory, Starlite and SRLT just came during the season, submitted a sig-up entry, and were accepted without any test. This means that any random guy, whatever his pace could come and bring up two buddies, submit an entry, and eventually have the opportunity to race. So, this means that everyone willing to race in the IGTC, in theory could have been excluded from the GTAL whatever his experience.

I know that you're going to open the door to some guys, letting to everyone the possibility to proove that s/he hasn't the IGTC/MoE standards. But, trust me, this put a fog into everyone's conception of the future, as no one knows what criterias you'll put to deem a driver too experienced to race in the GTAL. To illustate that thought just lemme remind you that one :

Quote from GianniC :South City Caby Company withdraws its application to IGTC.
This in order to be completely sure to be able to compete in the GTAL.

What?? SCCC, a 6 years old team without any experience in endurance, throwing a chance to get into the IGTC, in order to be 100% sure they'd get in the GTAL?

This was just to show to everyone, that this rule is destroying the IGTC's and the GTAL's grids, while endurance racing is struggling with the lack of interrest coming from the "historical" teams. I find it absolutely pathetic IMO.

Last thing, is that a proved fact that having driven in the IGTC makes you stronger than the rest of the Earth? Let's face the truth, being experienced will help you to deal with the pressure, will teach you how to preserve the tyres, but will certainly not help you to to increase your race pace of 2 or 3 seconds, basically the ones you need to find to go from a 7th place at the GTAL to a 7th place at the IGTC.
Quote from Yann :proove another time how this "no-IGTC" driver rule

What no-IGTC driver rule?

Any driver having any previous has to CONSULT the admin team, it is then up to the admins to decide if their experience was great enough not to be permitted to drive GTAL.

So there is no no-IGTC rule at all.

NOTE: You would be permitted to drive Yann.
Quote from Wilko868 :
Any driver having any previous has to CONSULT the admin team, it is then up to the admins to decide if their experience was great enough not to be permitted to drive GTAL.

mmkay... But how will you separe the "still-GTAL class" drivers to the rest?

Quote :NOTE: You would be permitted to drive Yann.

Well there won't be a class system or any pile of rubbish like that. We (NDR) will judge ANY driver with prior IGTC or MoE experience on aspects such as result, behaviour, pace versus team mates, success.

So drivers like Rik De Jong (Sorry to single you out alot Rik :razz who have driven at a good pace and has had a succession of very good drives would obviously not be permitted to race in the GTAL.

But say you Yann. Your race in the one IGTC round did not yield a good result, and we wern't really on the pace. Thus, you would probably be permitted (after NDR discuss it) to race in the GTAL.

I hope this clears it up for you mate
#122 - CSF
Sounds like I can drive then?
#124 - CSF
Well that might not be a good idea given the fits of laughter the last round gave me when BOOTHY did fastest lap.
That was quite funny.

Felipe's first ever fai.......I mean broadcast was the same race too.

FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG