Quote from george_tsiros :

some ECUs don't allow thrashing/mistreating your engine. (and if they don't do that today, wait for it)

Then you have to ask youreself why you're thrashing around a family hatchback.

Quote from BlueFlame :

I thrash the shit out of my Jetta, and it works perfectly. It was recommended after I did an oilchange anyway.

Yeah...its kind of recommended once in a while to rev a rotary engine to redline to clean any built up carbon on the apex seals.



Means fun for me

Well thats what I don't get about when people get new cars and stuff, you will have to floor it eventually, each new 100rpm you go into, is a 100rpm you haven't been in before, so you mayaswell rev it alot through the whole powerband, but just drive regularly like you would in a normal car, in the low end.

Quote from hrtburnout :

I don't think the owner of such a fast performance car would care about fuel consumption. Admit it: 1000hp out of a 12.9l N/A V8(?) is very impressive!

It's basicly 2 V8's joined together, so it's a W16 not a V8.

Very unimpressive numbers.

Look at my previous post which i think is the most beautifull engine.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1249256#post1249256

Quote from G!NhO :

It's basicly 2 V8's joined together, so it's a W16 not a V8.

the weineck cobra doesn't have a w16. it has a 12.9L v8. the veyron has a w16. hrtburnout isn't talking about the veyron.

the veyron outputs 1250Nm 1024hp out of a quadturbocharged injected 16cylinder engine. the cobra outputs 1450Nm(*) 1200hp out of a naturally aspirated carburated 8cylinder engine.

i'd say the v8 takes the cake.

Quote from Klutch :

Then you have to ask youreself why you're thrashing around a family hatchback.

we're talking about engines here, not cars.

*: actual figure up to debate it seems, ranges from 1450 to 1760

Quote from george_tsiros :

~1000hp out of a 12.9L, N.A., carburated engine.

Weineck?

Edit: Didn´t see the last post... at least I knew where it´s from :->

Quote from george_tsiros :

we're talking about engines here, not cars.

Well the engine itself isn't going to limit its thrashing capabilities, its needs a ECU to do that. Which, surpisingly, is located in the car?!?!


WHOA, NO WAY!

The only reason i mentioned a Family hatchback, is the fact that it would be the only type of car that would limit the engine from being driven hard.
Get off your period.

i ain't gonna reply to that in here.

an engine needs an ecu, otherwise it is incomplete. it won't even start. irrelevant if the engine goes in a boat in a bike or wherever.

and i said that ECUs don't/won't allow thrashing of the engine, irrelevant if one is driving a car a boat a plane or whatever.

Quote from george_tsiros :

i ain't gonna reply to that in here.

an engine needs an ecu, otherwise it is incomplete. it won't even start. irrelevant if the engine goes in a boat in a bike or wherever.

and i said that ECUs don't/won't allow thrashing of the engine, irrelevant if one is driving a car a boat a plane or whatever.

Wheres the head-brick smashing emoticon when you need it.

If engines always need ECUs, what did they do 50 years ago? A Carburettor/Metering Unit and Mechanical Distrubitor can do the jobs that an ECU does, although perhaps less accurately.

And a normal ECU has no control over wether you decide to bury your foot or not.

Quote from 5haz :

If engines always need ECUs, what did they do 50 years ago?

"always need" is different from "always needded". anyway i said "needs".

small difference to the eyes, but significant difference in meaning.

which brings us to:

Quote from 5haz :

A Carburettor/Metering Unit and Mechanical Distrubitor can do the jobs that an ECU does, although perhaps less accurately.

here's what an Engine Control Unit does. since modern engines that have an ecu don't have carburators... i don't know what you said.

Quote from 5haz :

And a normal ECU has no control over wether you decide to bury your foot or not.

i don't know what a "normal ECU" is... are you talking about, say, the ecu like one found in a renault clio? a normal car of today? the accelerator pedal does not control the machine directly. so while it might not have any say in your foot burying it can very damn well ignore it if it wants.

and it will.

VTEC KICKED IN YO!

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/p ... n9315466_41460936_489.jpg

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/p ... n9315466_41460937_742.jpg

Maybe I'm a little biased. She was my baby.

Quote from PAracer :

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/p ... n9315466_41460936_489.jpg

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/p ... n9315466_41460937_742.jpg

Maybe I'm a little biased. She was my baby.

Is that a SHO? or am i way off base?

That's exactly what it is. What an engine that thing had. I wish I still had it. 160,000 miles and still ripping around the road courses of the north east.

Quote from george_tsiros :

"always need" is different from "always needded". anyway i said "needs".

small difference to the eyes, but significant difference in meaning.

which brings us to:

here's what an Engine Control Unit does. since modern engines that have an ecu don't have carburators... i don't know what you said.

i don't know what a "normal ECU" is... are you talking about, say, the ecu like one found in a renault clio? a normal car of today? the accelerator pedal does not control the machine directly. so while it might not have any say in your foot burying it can very damn well ignore it if it wants.

and it will.

Just because ECU technology exists today, dosen't mean you can no longer run an engine using a carb, it is still possible to build an engine without an ECU.

A carburettor controls fuel injection, a distributor controls ignition timing, and the carb controls idle speed too. Everything that is listed in said wikipedia article, an ECU simply does everything electronically that a carb/distributor used to do mechanically.

And by standard ECU, I did indeed mean an everyday ECU found on a modern road car. Also there are still quite a few modern cars which have cable operated throttles.

I define 'thrashing' a car as using a lot of revs, revving it right to the redline, as far as I know there are no systems that would stop you from doing this (rev limniters don't count as they only stop you revving beyond the redline, or a certain preset RPM), stopping the driver from applying a lot of pedal would probrably be dangerous, as in some situtations you do need to.

The throttle is one of the cars controls, if it had a mind of its own then it wouldn't be a control, and the driver would not be fully in control of the car, not a good situation to be in!

An electronically controlled throttle can be used to provide traction control or rev limiting, or to smooth power delivery, but as far as I know it will not stop you from driving at high revs.

the whole discussion that ended up to ECUs etc started with this comment:

Quote from 5haz :

Thats more or less the same with any machine.

i say that no, it is not the same with any machine and to back that up i say that there are machines now that do not allow you to mistreat them.

that's it.

if you are saying that a user can find some way to screw the engine... yeah ok, but then we go back to what tristan said... a wankel no matter how well engineered can not hope th achieve the reliability of a usual four stroke.

for instance, the cb500 has an engine that can go 200000km with nothing but the usual oil/sparkplug replacing.

Well yeah, unless you take complete control away from the driver, then the driver will still be able to thrash a car's engine.

And its the same with any machine, work it harder and it'll wear out faster, because you'll be putting it under greater stress more often than if you were gentle with it, thats common sense.

Mine:

http://vimeo.com/4769353

the thing is, tristan said that if you thrash a wankel from cold it will die pretty much on the spot, or sustain serious damage. that's not what happens with every engine though... a typical fourstroke will just have its life shortened.

i've been mistreating my lancia's 1.4 8v for years now, the whole car is about to fall apart but the engine still goes on without a single hiccup, after 100K km.

vtak yo

Quote from 5haz :

I define 'thrashing' a car as using a lot of revs, revving it right to the redline, as far as I know there are no systems that would stop you from doing this (rev limniters don't count as they only stop you revving beyond the redline, or a certain preset RPM), stopping the driver from applying a lot of pedal would probrably be dangerous, as in some situtations you do need to.

The throttle is one of the cars controls, if it had a mind of its own then it wouldn't be a control, and the driver would not be fully in control of the car, not a good situation to be in!

An electronically controlled throttle can be used to provide traction control or rev limiting, or to smooth power delivery, but as far as I know it will not stop you from driving at high revs.

actually it can and does
a friends parenty own a 1 series tdi and it has a soft limiter that sets in much earlier while the engine is still cold
also i think the wastegate opens at lower pressures with a cold engine

But thats an Audi, likely to have more advanced technological features than most other, lower cost cars, 'Vorsprung durch technik' afterall. With some exceptions, most cars probrably don't have ways to stop you thrashing the engine.

But its still true that if you do 'thrash' any kind of machine, it probrably wont do it much good.

bmw actually
and im quite certain most german cars particularly tdis have these features
its not like it takes more than 10 minutes to code that into the ecu