Alright, many of you know who I am, therefore many of you will also know that I dont usually complain about the game too much (unless it comes to damage models :razz. However, I would like to ask the community it's thoughts on the current LFS pits model and I would like to ask what would be needed to change to make LFS more "realistic" in terms of damage from crashes and how the pits handle them

Basically my problem is this:

During the Dystonia 350 race yesterday, I cut a tire and went straight into the wall. I was driving the FZR (but a engine damaged FZR so I was going 10 mph slower than usual). Now, after that wreck my car was almost undriveable, but still going....ok fine.

I went into the pits and it took about 50 seconds to make my car completely new again (apart from the engine damage as pits doesnt repair that).

Does this seem realistic to you that the pits can literally repair absolutely anything?

I mean my incident almost mirrors this crash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkpxSu5oJeg

The only difference was that my tire blew during the turn instead of at the exit of the turn and I didn't hit the inside wall (although I would have if Kyoto was as tight as Bristol so that's pretty realistic ). That car immediately retired after that crash....however, I was able to get the car repaired in just over 50 seconds and came back out like nothing had ever happened. I was even able to come out of the pits with just one lap down.

I've seen people retire from much lighter wrecks than that and this as got me thinking.

Should the pits just magically repair everything and the car will run like nothing had ever happen to it? I know if the pits had a stricter repair model that it would suck for people to get into wrecks that wasn't their fault and retire due to too much damage....BUT....isn't that a big part of racing as well?

Also, my contact with the wall was pretty severe and yet I was fully able to continue. I went straight into the wall at 162 mph...why was I able to continue? Should the car axis damage be incorporated? Is it engine damage that wouldn't allow the car to continue? What features would have to be introduced in order for me to mimic Jeff Burton's situation in which I just had to retire and couldn't possibly continue?

Yeah well, I think what you all want will take years, if any of it will be implanted. I think we need some break-off stuff. And that it would long to fix exterior damage. Also damage like when you hit a wall with like a road car, and your wheel front is like at your front wheels, I think such damage shouldn't be repaired. I only think your wheels should be repaired, so you can drive a bit normal, or just unable to continue driving.

I would like it if the only thing that could be done in a regular pitstop is fuel and tyres, BUT, also have an option (maybe a key you can press while pitting) that will repair more major damage (not including engine) but will hold you in the pits for longer depending on the degree of damage, maybe upto 10 minutes or something, but anything that would take longer than that to repair IRL would deem you out of the race.

Slightly OT to that though, i would also like it of you had to press a button once you are parked in a pit box, as for me there is nothing more annoying when you come out of the pits when you have just joined a host and someone maybe clips your car in a busy pit lane or you catch the side of the garage as you are driving out so you have got lightish damage, but you happen to stop in a pit box, and then you are stuck there until you are totally repaired and there is nothing you can do about it, you just have to sit and wait for it to be over.

Hmm I looked at my own incident again and I looked at some videos where wrecks like mine happened.

Basically in RL, the axis if the front wheels break or bends (along with the chassis) due to the impact. We have all seen how extreme the LFS chassis can bend (without breaking) but the wheels are floating in the air.

I think what I want isn't too difficult to incorporate.

Have the axis bend with the chassis and have that "unrepairable" (which it really isn't in RL in a short amount of time).

I think another problem is that the chassis and the wheels are sorta independent from each other. I see chassis and wheel merging without any consequences as well as the chassis going through the wheel.

I think I'll make a list:

*Axis damages by bending or breaking (in which the wheel doesnt spins anymore)
*Crushed chassis will wrap around the wheel or "hinders" the wheel
*Actual engine damage
*Pit repairs (or removes) damaged sections of the chassis, repair tire damage, and maybe other minor things but nothing major like broken suspension, broken axis, damaged engines etc.
*Extend pit repair time for damage. 50 seconds to completely repair a severely damaged suspension? Sorry no...

I think with these 4 things incorporated I can have what i want in terms of damage. There is almost no way for any sim to full cover every single wreck situation and emulate it completely realistically. But are these 4 things so much to ask?

I personally dont think so but feel free to prove me wrong.

Quote from danthebangerboy :

but will hold you in the pits for longer depending on the degree of damage, maybe upto 10 minutes or something, but anything that would take longer than that to repair IRL would deem you out of the race.

I would like the pits to be longer also when repairing damage, and the damage to have more of an impact on the car (to make you have to repair).

It sort of does its job as of now, wouldn't mind it a bit better though.

1st of all, we need reasonable pit crews. It's amazing to see a F1 pit crew changing one tyre at a time during a race. LFS pit crews should work in different ways for different cars. Putting fuel into a UF1's tank should be much harder than into a FXR's, and you have to deal with only one screw to change a FO8 tyre while it takes a lot more effort to replace a XFG's.

Secondly, we need reasonable damage model. When the vehicle seems to be several pieces of paper sticked together, jammed up in the pocket of your coat which has just been washed, who can tell which part to fix ?! ( In fact you don't have to. The "jammed up paper" is still working ! Unbelievable. )

The third step is reasonable repairing time, as LouZhu (LizardFolk) has mentioned.

Quote from lizardfolk :

*Axis damages by bending or breaking (in which the wheel doesnt spins anymore)

I assume you mean "axle", seems like a reasonable addition to me. Conceptually, I don't think this terribly difficult to implement.

edit: I thought about this one a little bit more; I'm now really surprised it's not in the game already considering how extensive the suspension damage is. I've taken a lot of hits that definitely should have bent or broken a halfshaft. I'm going to call this one an essential addition to the game.

Quote from lizardfolk :

*Crushed chassis will wrap around the wheel or "hinders" the wheel

This is a little much. Having the chassis crumple and bend around a wheel is a very difficult problem, calculating how much effect the bodywork has on retarding the motion of the wheel is even tougher. While this is a very cool idea, I don't think it could make it into the game.

Quote from lizardfolk :

*Actual engine damage

We already sort of have this. It would be nice to have impact damage affect the performance of the engine and have catastrophic (i.e., blows up) engine damage. Engine wear and the performance impact would be cool too. I'd also like to see transmission damage lumped in here.

Quote from lizardfolk :

*Pit repairs (or removes) damaged sections of the chassis, repair tire damage, and maybe other minor things but nothing major like broken suspension, broken axis, damaged engines etc.

The visual aspect of this would be pretty cool and not terribly difficult to implement (go all the way back to Nascar Racing and you can see this effect). Would be even cooler if this had an effect on aero performance.

Quote from lizardfolk :

*Extend pit repair time for damage. 50 seconds to completely repair a severely damaged suspension? Sorry no...

I'd like to see this more than anything else. In addition to making the repair times more realistic, I'd like to see damage sorted into different categories... examples of what I have in mind:

* repairable: broken wings, minor bodywork damage
* not repairable, but not terminal: minor suspension damage, bodywork damage, minor drivetrain damage
* terminal: major suspension damage, major drivetrain damage

The really big one here is engine damage. I'd really like to see the instant damage fix go away.

I think LFS should make you scared to crash into walls and other players. Like you said keep you in pits longer and fix not everything but enough to keep racing or take you out of the race completely.

Well, it will be good to have atleast this....

When starting refuelling, the time will be e.g. 6 seconds + refuelling time - the refuellers must put the hose into the tank lid. It should prevent the situations when you set to refuel only 1% and the pit stop lasts few tenths of second.

Quote from lizardfolk :

Alright, many of you know who I am, therefore many of you will also know that I dont usually complain about the game too much (unless it comes to damage models :razz. However, I would like to ask the community it's thoughts on the current LFS pits model and I would like to ask what would be needed to change to make LFS more "realistic" in terms of damage from crashes and how the pits handle them

Basically my problem is this:

During the Dystonia 350 race yesterday, I cut a tire and went straight into the wall. I was driving the FZR (but a engine damaged FZR so I was going 10 mph slower than usual). Now, after that wreck my car was almost undriveable, but still going....ok fine.

I went into the pits and it took about 50 seconds to make my car completely new again (apart from the engine damage as pits doesnt repair that).

Does this seem realistic to you that the pits can literally repair absolutely anything?

I mean my incident almost mirrors this crash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkpxSu5oJeg

The only difference was that my tire blew during the turn instead of at the exit of the turn and I didn't hit the inside wall (although I would have if Kyoto was as tight as Bristol so that's pretty realistic ). That car immediately retired after that crash....however, I was able to get the car repaired in just over 50 seconds and came back out like nothing had ever happened. I was even able to come out of the pits with just one lap down.

I've seen people retire from much lighter wrecks than that and this as got me thinking.

Should the pits just magically repair everything and the car will run like nothing had ever happen to it? I know if the pits had a stricter repair model that it would suck for people to get into wrecks that wasn't their fault and retire due to too much damage....BUT....isn't that a big part of racing as well?

Also, my contact with the wall was pretty severe and yet I was fully able to continue. I went straight into the wall at 162 mph...why was I able to continue? Should the car axis damage be incorporated? Is it engine damage that wouldn't allow the car to continue? What features would have to be introduced in order for me to mimic Jeff Burton's situation in which I just had to retire and couldn't possibly continue?

Good point.
I did some races at FE and the curbs are really heavy on the car.
I try to ease on my suspension but the loss of time is to big. It's more rewarding trashing your suspension and get it repaired (in longer races).

BTW
I did not notice any difference driving with a half damaged suspension.
Should not be the handling of the car much more difficult?

"Lizardfolk said:
*Extend pit repair time for damage. 50 seconds to completely repair a severely damaged suspension? Sorry no...
"

Well, a severly damaged suspension in in that sense shouldnt be repairable in that race. Especially if you tore the wheel off.

On the other hand the damage model is what it is today.
Damage model is not complete and a little "arcadey", therefore I think it is fair that the pitcrew should be equivalent.

I did some Netkar races with "Full mode" enabled - you can easily spend 10-15 minutes in pits for brushing a wall, sometimes deserved sometimes not. It sure teaches you to stay off the walls and other cars (especially with a randomized collision detection ) but means your race can be over in no time due to small lag or minor bug in collision detection. A tiny bit frustrating...

I'd rather wait for a more complete and detailed damage system to be released before we get realistic repairs, don't you?