Quote from MadCat360 :

There's onboards on my blog.

I didn't say I could do it, zero steer is just the fastest way physically.

So how would u create the castor effect to unload the inside rear tyre ? If it isn't unloaded then

1. TYhe kart don't wanna turn
2. The engine will big like ****

Actually on that note what axles are those karts running. titanium lol! bog bog bog bog

i agree with intrepid, i have had times were i have been caught out by not being that very experainced and expecting the kart to run run wider cos of the higher sped i was doing but it actally turned better that the laps before when i took it slower cos the rear wheel was lifting more, you have to rememeber that they are soklid axle and to make them turn you have to make the inner wheel travel over less ground than it wants too, eith by waving it in the air or by spinning it, the former being the better option.

i do admit i only have a small amount of experiance actaully racing karts but understand how they work pretty well

I got 2 wr's, but that is with renting karts, i didn't get to buy one YET, selling my ATV.
As said earlier, be Jenson Button smooth.

Quote from Intrepid :

So how would u create the castor effect to unload the inside rear tyre ? If it isn't unloaded then

1. TYhe kart don't wanna turn
2. The engine will big like ****

Actually on that note what axles are those karts running. titanium lol! bog bog bog bog

Uh, trail braking? Brief moments of zero steer? If the car is rotating in the corner then the inside wheel is picking up. You can hear it coming off the ground in my videos. I just said I couldn't zero steer an entire track. If your steering is neutral that means the slip angle is perfect. If the slip angle is perfect the inside tire's picking up.

The karts are 55mm rears. Still didn't stop a guy snapping one... the engines are Rotax, that's why they are bogging so much. Pretty temperature sensitive engines. Sometimes they work alright and sometimes you can't even go to full throttle until you're halfway down the straight.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Daytona, never been there thoough.

My experience @ Daytona venues (Sandown Park) has always been good. Generally well run, friendly staff and a good track with various different layouts . Although it is too late now anyway .

Quote from MadCat360 :

The karts are 55mm rears. Still didn't stop a guy snapping one... the engines are Rotax, that's why they are bogging so much. Pretty temperature sensitive engines. Sometimes they work alright and sometimes you can't even go to full throttle until you're halfway down the straight.

lol you don't have to tell me about Rotaxs. I've owned one!

Does anyone know where i can get hold of the times at ppik in leeds area?

u cant get anybodies times from the championship

i went karting today for the first time in like 8 years
and i managed to get in 1,2 sec of the layout record (38sec lap)
which im pretty happy with

If you will be driving "Honda(or something) lawnmower 6.5hp engines" indoor with a steel guard around the kart then following may work:

Find the shortest rout around the track, as the grip improves you may be able to drive a narrower line around the course.

Sometimes a hairpin that you can take flat out, but barely, maybe faster with an abrupt throttle lift just before(no clue why that works).

Response is basecly nonexistent, so mouse-driver style throttle blips works better then being smooth, also keeps fuel supply to the engine.

Leaning to the outside is said to give more grip, not sure about that, watch your ribs if you do.

Experiment with different approaches to corners, some(mostly very tight hairpins) require an abrupt kick on the brakes to swing the kart around, while others(mostly highspeed chicanes) are faster with a very early smooth braking approach, almost rolling in.

Watch for different patches of surface, rough concrete patches have better grip on unoiled tracks, while the smooth stuff is much grippier when the track is oiled(or there's oil spill). Due to this weird lines are sometimes faster. If the track is oiled on purpose, collect as much of it during practice/quali, it dissolves the tyres making them much grippier.

Add ballast as far front as possible, if you need to at all.

You can tell that a kart is good by the sound and top speed. Good ones stay in high revs easier and unless you mess up don't die out of turns. Of course you want the most oversteery kart you can get(unless the track is cold/low grip).

I went go karting last year on a packed indoor course, i was the fastest but never set the fastest because as soon as i broke free of traffic it would take me less then half a lap to pick up more. I also didnt place because of the lack of oppurtunities to pass

But my advice as i was on my rivit on some laps.
Just feel it for yourself if you think you can take that corner a few inchs closer do it, its all about give and take, you just have to find the right balance thats right for you.

Quote from IDUI :

Sometimes a hairpin that you can take flat out, but barely, maybe faster with an abrupt throttle lift just before(no clue why that works).

Leaning to the outside is said to give more grip, not sure about that, watch your ribs if you do.

1. works because the weight is going forward. It gives the front tires more contact area and makes the turn-in snappier.

2... not sure. Just don't lean inward. That will definitely reduce the grip. I don't lean out when I drive, but just by holding myself steady in the seat the weight transfer would get to the outside tires.

i actually started moving my butt in the seat, like a motorbike rider does on corner entry. I found it gave me better turn in and i could get the power on earlier or on one hairpin, take it flat or on some occasions near enough flat.

If you're running a 4 stroke Honda OHV GX200 6.5 motor, you're not always looking at having the maximum grîp so watch out with the leaning to the outside in some corners. In extremely tight hairpins where you actually have to brake and slow down conciderably, you actually dont want too much grip as that'll make the motor bog down. Those things have little power and torque at low RPM's so you need to try and keep the RPM's as high as possible for as long as possible. I guess thats why they say smoother is faster in those things, harsher point n shoot methods will just make you lose RPM's and then its harder to get them back up.

@ Madcat : When you lean forwards you don't lose grip, you just make the front grippier. So if you're having understeering issues and can't get the setup fixed, moving your head forward a little on turn in could help. More weight in front = more front bite!

Quote from evilpimp :

@ Madcat : When you lean forwards you don't lose grip, you just make the front grippier. So if you're having understeering issues and can't get the setup fixed, moving your head forward a little on turn in could help. More weight in front = more front bite!

I was talking about leaning inwards, towards the inside wheels? A new driver did that in my school series last year. He was getting loose at speeds much, much slower than I was going through the corners.

Quote from MadCat360 :

1. works because the weight is going forward. It gives the front tires more contact area and makes the turn-in snappier.

2... not sure. Just don't lean inward. That will definitely reduce the grip. I don't lean out when I drive, but just by holding myself steady in the seat the weight transfer would get to the outside tires.

The balance change may explain this, if so it is minute as the lift was roughly thesame as we do to shift up in MRT/FBM. It may even have been a mental thing, where I just though that it was faster. I only used this in the turns where the revs would drop off with WOT, it seemed counter intuitive, but worked.. until the track/tyres warmed up more and the entry speed was high enough to sustain the revs. Just a little trick that sometimes works if the kart bogs down.

As for leaning to the outside, I guess it works in low grip conditions with those karts. As the grip gets better bouncing becomes an issue instead and having the kart pointing in the direction of the exit becomes more important as is being smooth.

However, I've seen two super fast indoor karters who seemed everything other then smooth. They compete regularly, with fast Sport2000 (same as Rotax?) and KZ2 drivers and are able to run faster by simply stabbing the brakes as fast as they can and then getting back on throttle. The kart rotates with a screech and away they go. This approach allows for a ridiculously tight line, thus making passing them virtually impossible. This of course puts huge stress on the belt and I've seen them snap a few.

Button is quick in a kart, but not quick enough, so dont drive like him. Instead drive like Schumacher and cheat.

The best way is by switching your transponder with the fastest driver. Also if it is a restricted rental kart you can usually find it between the engine and the fuel tank and use it as a throttle with your hand whilst you drive.

Other Schumacher tips include outright bribery, driving your championship rivals off the road, and wearing red (red goes faster).

Quote from Becky Rose :

Other Schumacher tips include outright bribery, driving your championship rivals off the road, and wearing red (red goes faster).

I always thought it was black. Damn it.

Quote from carey :

Jenson won his first ever karting race!

Everyone I've ever known won their first kart race and beat the lap record and was the best thing ever! It doesn't mean that much because you don't know what karts, or what level he raced in. His gear was extremely fast though when he did go higher up the ladder. I know having experienced one of his ex-motors!

Quote from carey :

Hamilton finished fourth (I think)

Again he could have finished 4th in a race of 6 karts having only beaten 2 novices and finished 30 seconds behind the guys in front. I have raced Hamilton however, and he was EXTREMELY good but certainly not significantly better than the guys he was racing around.

All these first race stories are ones pedalled out to make drivers seem superhuman when in fact they are not. They are just very good drivers.

i havent been carting since they closed down the best place in my city.

all the carts were x race carts they were Intercontinental A 125 cc engines soooo fast and sooo much fun

Quote from carey :

Well yes, there's too much emphasis placed on firsts (for example drivers scoring points in their first GP), but some of them lead you to the conclusion that it's natural for them which's an important element to understand.

You can't compare first F1 point, to first karting race. The fact is without any knowledge about the first kart race - track/competitors/karts - it's a worthless fact. I know many drivers who started rubbish and developed into superb drivers, and visa versa. Had Hamilton's first race been against decent karters at the time he woulda finished dead last. Without the facts to back up a statement like "he won his first kart race" it really doesn't mean much.

Quote :

Everyone I've ever known won their first kart race and beat the lap record and was the best thing ever!

Do I get props for only finishing second in my first race?

(although I realise this counts against me: It was actually a massive class win by a huge margin, I was merely second overall).

/end petting of own ego

Form can come and go, skills develop over time, understanding of the sport improves as exposure to it increases, new concepts are learned with practice and competent analysis, even raw talent evolves over time.

The only thing that immediate sucess in any formula teaches is that some elements of potential exist, but that is far from having a complete package, as the driver is yet to be tested under a range of different scenarios.

I remember my first game of tenpin bowling, 4 strikes and a respectable first time score around 150 or so. I remember the game I played at my firms xmas party year before last, a grand score of about 45...

Immediate success is not indicative of future sucess. Take Jean Alesi for instance, led his first race driving in a Tyrrell, finished second and only beaten by Ayrton Senna in a much faster car after a fierce battle. Next race he was just as promising, then the pressure of F1 got to him.

In the specific case of what started this conversation, Jenson Button winning his first kart race, it's been covered thoroughly on these forums in the past that I used to race him in TKM and have held a very low opinion of him ever since, I modified my view point of him at the start of this season and like everybody else wondered if he had evolved into a good driver.

Although lately the guy I used to race against is definately back to his original form. I can't think of many F1 championship winning drivers who've qualified their highly competetive car so badly so consistently as Jenson Button has of late, and indeed, has done for most of his racing career.

Quote from MadCat360 :

Uh, trail braking? Brief moments of zero steer? If the car is rotating in the corner then the inside wheel is picking up. You can hear it coming off the ground in my videos. I just said I couldn't zero steer an entire track. If your steering is neutral that means the slip angle is perfect. If the slip angle is perfect the inside tire's picking up.

Why would you trail brake in a kart? The way I brake in a kart and always have is stomp the pedal very quickly and release it slowly just as I turn in to force the inside rear off the ground. Obviously for corners where you don't need to scrub a lot of speed off then I don't stomp the pedal.

Quote :

The karts are 55mm rears. Still didn't stop a guy snapping one... the engines are Rotax, that's why they are bogging so much. Pretty temperature sensitive engines. Sometimes they work alright and sometimes you can't even go to full throttle until you're halfway down the straight.

I used to race a rotax and know plenty who do and have never suffered hugely with temperature. Considering I race in Scotland we just kept an eye on our readings and covered the radiator as necessary.

I don't understand your point of 'zero steer' because it's not true. There are plenty of different driving styles out there. At the track I work at I personally turn quite heavily to begin with to help slow the kart down and force the inside rear to lift. This usually gets most of my steering done straight away so I can get back on the throttle and use minimal steering through the exit of the corner.

THE Way to brake isn't trail braking.
If you have a good brake. Then you can stomp the pedal very fast. Let the rear tires lock up and slide it into the corner.