Quote from george_tsiros :

hey nesrulz

read the posts #607 to #611 then look at my avatar

I thought you were talking about others posts than the one by nesrulz, tbh.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Its just funny that everyone slags them off, then as soon as they bring an update (which could be next year for all we know i might add) they all go brown nosing "hey scawen your liek the best dev ever, i want your babies!!!" is so weird and so 2 faced.

Its like when kids hate their mums or dads, then as soon as they're bought something they arse lick for a couple of months one of my mates is a perfect example and it bugs the shit out of me, so shallow.

Sharon/5haz - I spelt arse like ass because i didn't think it would get through the swear filter, but it does so Whats your deal anyway? Are you trying to be Tristan's predecessor? Your certainly heading that way

Also, don't forget, it's like a relationship. If your girlfriend/boyfriend isn't telling you nothing (mind you this is in a relationship based about more than sex.. like mine. mine involves video games. ^_^ i love my gamer chick) and you don't hear from them for over 7 months, and you keep calling and wondering whats going on and you know their getting your message but they don't say anything back, would you get a little pissed?

Then, at the same time, if they come back and say "YOU KNOW WHAT!? Lets have hardcore sex for an entire week, PLUS, I *insert something that adds to your sexual fantasy here*" (similar to this new tire system) wouldn't you be extremely happy?

i know i would.

^_^ SO GO DEVS. you're just... awesome.

Talk about awkward.

Quote from Scawen :

Hello LFS Racers,

We are pleased to announce that a new tyre physics model is currently in the testing and refinement stage.

Quote from Arsenic_Fox :

Also, don't forget, it's like a relationship. If your girlfriend/boyfriend isn't telling you nothing (mind you this is in a relationship based about more than sex.. like mine. mine involves video games. ^_^ i love my gamer chick) and you don't hear from them for over 7 months, and you keep calling and wondering whats going on and you know their getting your message but they don't say anything back, would you get a little pissed?

Then, at the same time, if they come back and say "YOU KNOW WHAT!? Lets have hardcore sex for an entire week, PLUS, I *insert something that adds to your sexual fantasy here*" (similar to this new tire system) wouldn't you be extremely happy?

i know i would.

^_^ SO GO DEVS. you're just... awesome.

For me, theres a fine line between sex and LFS, the two are totally different and not compareable

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

For me, theres a fine line between sex and LFS, the two are totally different and not compareable

So you don't make brum brum noises during sex, fumble about with the gearstick when it pops out of gear or wave a yellow flag if the condom splits? Or is that just me?

Quote from Bob Smith :

So you don't make brum brum noises during sex, fumble about with the gearstick when it pops out of gear or wave a yellow flag if the condom splits? Or is that just me?

This is signature material

EPIC

a

Quote from Arsenic_Fox :

^_^ SO GO DEVS. you're just... awesome.

Wow, that's even worse than TVE.

Sorry to be an straight a**hole with this comment but:

SCAWEN PLEASE RELEASE A TEST PATCH WITH THIS STUFF and VWS at or before the 11th of September


I want to use it at the Lan Party



*Awaits flaming banana's and the trowing of rotten tomatoes*

You're a ****ing ****.

Quote from rockclan :

Sorry to be an straight a**hole with this comment but:

SCAWEN PLEASE RELEASE A TEST PATCH WITH THIS STUFF and VWS at or before the 11th of September


I want to use it at the Lan Party



*Awaits flaming banana's and the trowing of rotten tomatoes*

He can't because it is not finished yet

Quote from rockclan :

*Awaits flaming banana's and the trowing of rotten tomatoes*

Not being one to disappoint...

:duck:

Can't wait for Don's teaser video(s)

Quote from SlamDunk :

Can't wait for Don's teaser video(s)

Are you sure there will be one?

I drove GPL for the past eleven years but made the mistake of trying iRacing. The iRacing tire model has that little something that lets you know how hard the car is working to hang on to the track. At some point you can sense that the tires are really being given all they can take and you had better be careful. Whether you are at 50%, 100%, or over the limit at 110% iRacing has a different feel for each case rather than just gliding over the track surface at different rates of speed with the same feel. The latter is the way GPL now feels to me. I would put the present LFS tire model about half way between the two. I really hope that LFS has tried iRacing and notice what I am referring to.

I am not sure what causes this. I have written a tire analysis program that attempts to calculate the loads and the shape of the tire sidewalls in order to get a better feel for what happens to a tire under stress. The program seems to give reasonable results for vertical load as far as spring rate and contact patch size but the lateral load case is flexing too much. Even so, there seems to be a cross coupling effect between vertical load and side load. A side load reduces the vertical spring rate of the tires and increased vertical load increases the side deflection. So if you apply a side load to a tire the wheel will tend to settle closer to the track surface. If the tire loses side grip then the side deformation will decrease and the tire will try to push the wheel up causing a sudden increase in vertical load as the tire tries to jack the car back up where it would normally be for less side load. With added vertical force it would seem that the tire would momentarily regain grip and the process would then repeat itself. This may be the source of that little chirp-chirp sound you get as you reach the limit as apposed to the constant squeal sound that occurs below the limit.

If anyone (Bob Smith ?) knows of a good source of information for sidewall behavior would you please post it. I can find loads of stuff on contact patch stuff but that is mainly about grip. The sidewalls are what really count for spring rate and feel. At least that is my opinion.

Quote from garph :

No. The lack of updates and the delay to up coming patch has done a fair bit of damage to LFS. They need to capitalize and push forward when the patch is released, not sit back and take a break.

Totally agree i know at least 8 people that stopped playing. new tire model is great im not so hyped up about the scirrocco[I know a good deal of people are} IMO they need to work on tracks/ interiors and damage model. but above all TRACKS{ IM talking after the tire model that is most important.} The same old tracks with a new tire model will get old really fast. its been how long without a new track!? When i do log on to see whats crackin its the same old combos with the same old cars......nothing has changed really. Well i did see a lx server up i was happy about that.

Them working at their leisure while i think i got my 35 bucks worth out of LFS is the thorn in the side for me its sooooo slow. Hope it speeds up.

Quote from codehound :

I drove GPL for the past eleven years but made the mistake of trying iRacing. The iRacing tire model has that little something that lets you know how hard the car is working to hang on to the track. At some point you can sense that the tires are really being given all they can take and you had better be careful. Whether you are at 50%, 100%, or over the limit at 110% iRacing has a different feel for each case rather than just gliding over the track surface at different rates of speed with the same feel. The latter is the way GPL now feels to me. I would put the present LFS tire model about half way between the two. I really hope that LFS has tried iRacing and notice what I am referring to.

I am not sure what causes this. I have written a tire analysis program that attempts to calculate the loads and the shape of the tire sidewalls in order to get a better feel for what happens to a tire under stress. The program seems to give reasonable results for vertical load as far as spring rate and contact patch size but the lateral load case is flexing too much. Even so, there seems to be a cross coupling effect between vertical load and side load. A side load reduces the vertical spring rate of the tires and increased vertical load increases the side deflection. So if you apply a side load to a tire the wheel will tend to settle closer to the track surface. If the tire loses side grip then the side deformation will decrease and the tire will try to push the wheel up causing a sudden increase in vertical load as the tire tries to jack the car back up where it would normally be for less side load. With added vertical force it would seem that the tire would momentarily regain grip and the process would then repeat itself. This may be the source of that little chirp-chirp sound you get as you reach the limit as apposed to the constant squeal sound that occurs below the limit.

If anyone (Bob Smith ?) knows of a good source of information for sidewall behavior would you please post it. I can find loads of stuff on contact patch stuff but that is mainly about grip. The sidewalls are what really count for spring rate and feel. At least that is my opinion.

This is an excellent post, thanks for doing it.

I 100% agree with your observations in your first paragraph as well.

I don't have much good info like that regarding tyres. I like you're thinking about tyre spring rate though, I'll have to try that out at some point and see what it does.

Is the drop really from the tyre losing vertical spring rate though, as I would expect the side deflection to be similar to turning a square into a parallelogram (for a very crude analogy), which would automatically create some reduction in sidewall height (if not length).

Quote from Bob Smith :

Is the drop really from the tyre losing vertical spring rate though, as I would expect the side deflection to be similar to turning a square into a parallelogram (for a very crude analogy), which would automatically create some reduction in sidewall height (if not length).

I think you are correct that if the tread moves to the side then the sidewall has to extend (less bulge) or the bead will have to move down to keep the same distance to the tread. But if you define spring rate as the load divided by the distance that it deflects then wouldn't it work out to be the same thing as a reduction in vertical spring rate? If not technically then at least in practice? Also, think of standing a broom straight up and pushing down as compared to leaning the broom over at an angle and pushing down vertically (not along the broom handle).

If anybody has any wisdom to offer on tire theory please jump in because I need all the help I can get. Of course, if people are interested it might need to be a separate thread.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Is the drop really from the tyre losing vertical spring rate though

i would think so
before you apply any lateral sidewall flex the tyre basically has to figure out which way it would go under vertical loads whereas with sidewall dlex the tyre has already buckled and adding more through vertical loads wont change the situation much

Quote from rockclan :

SCAWEN PLEASE RELEASE A TEST PATCH WITH THIS STUFF and VWS

how about a vws and autocross demo?

I never (and maybe wont ever) drove in iRacing, but i just drove a few laps in GPL and i noticed the tires loose traction in a more smooth way. So from what i read, people say that GPL was one of the most realistic sims out there (some say it still is), and i can't say anything about Iracing, but what i'm understanding is that this tire physics rework will make the load/traction curve of the tire more smooth?

I hope i made any sense, its 4a.m. here and i'm with a small headache... gotta go to bed.

PS: when i think about all the equations and variables involved in it... I don't know how Scawen's head hasn't already exploded by the amount of stuff he has to research/write/look at. =D

Ouh gosh ouh gosh! I cant wait for this update!!!

Quote from LILSTIG :

Ouh gosh ouh gosh! I cant wait for this update!!!

You'll have to... Don't worry, it wont take long anymore. in your dreams