Hi Racers

Just wondering how much time is lost using autogears. For example the XFG-car on Blackwood. If you lap 1.35 driving autogears, then, is it possible to lap 1.34 with manual gearchange?

see y on track

It obviously depends on the car and track, but I'd guess that you'd be losing at least 0.5-1 seconds on that combo with autogears.

Autogears will, in general, cost you a significant amount of time in comparison to manual.

Hi, and thanks for your comments.
I thought so, but then again, you would have to be able to change the gears correctly to gain the 1 second advantage, and thats easier said than done....

MPlayer

It's not so much doing the shifts right that slows you down, instead it's more the fact that the auto gearbox only uses speed and revs to decide when to change, so you'll sometimes get it changing gear halfway through a corner or taking you through a corner one gear higher or lower than you want.

'Changing the gears correctly' is more a case of knowing *when* to shift rather than *how* to shift.

it's not as hard as you might think, you'll get a grip on it rather quikcly imo.

Well the fastest hotlap on that combo with auto gears is nearly 1.2 seconds of the WR, but I mostly attribute that to the driver and the lack of entires using auto gears. I would have thought it's possible to get within tenths.

Hi again, and thanks all for answering.

Probably the time loss adds up from different things.

Another funny thing is when you look at a autogear-hotlap (.raf) with F1PerfView, the program counts the gearchanges twice...you might get 30 gearchanges instead of 17.
Does anybody have a good explanation to that one?

MPlayer

Quote from meseplayer :

hi again, and thanks all for answering.

Probably the time loss adds up from different things.

Another funny thing is when you look at a autogear-hotlap (.raf) with f1perfview, the program counts the gearchanges twice...you might get 30 gearchanges instead of 17.
Does anybody have a good explanation to that one?

Mplayer

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What are you using to drive? Thats a very improtant question, if you find it difficult to change gears because someone here might have settingsfor you to make it easier. If you use wheel then i don't understand how it can be hard. Ive had a few WR's using keyboard and auto gears, 1 is actually still up as1r/fox but its nearly a second off the pace now. It will gain you alot of time because it produces more engine braking, you don't drop a gearlower/higher in the middle of a corner. Gears a huge part of driving a car, you wouldn't let the computer steer it for you would you? The only thing you should let the computer do is auto clutch and thats only because you have control over it still. im 99% sure you'll be atleast .5s faster with manual gears.

Quote from Keling :

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Ok, a good explanation thanks, this might also add to the time lost with autogears, if the computer goes to neutral every time it changes gears for you. In the graph view, you can actually see it happen. On manual gears this of course doesn´t occur.

good racing to you all

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

What are you using to drive? Thats a very improtant question, if you find it difficult to change gears because someone here might have settingsfor you to make it easier. If you use wheel then i don't understand how it can be hard. Ive had a few WR's using keyboard and auto gears, 1 is actually still up as1r/fox but its nearly a second off the pace now. It will gain you alot of time because it produces more engine braking, you don't drop a gearlower/higher in the middle of a corner. Gears a huge part of driving a car, you wouldn't let the computer steer it for you would you? The only thing you should let the computer do is auto clutch and thats only because you have control over it still. im 99% sure you'll be atleast .5s faster with manual gears.

Hi, and thanks for you answer. I´m running both mouse/keyboard, and wheel, and it´s not hard changing gears manually, just haven´t been able to gain any time with it (yet). That´s why i asked you, experts, how much time you gain by driving manually, i mean, when you can do both, then it´s quite easy to compare the two, one would think.

safe riding to you

MPlayer

Quote from Meseplayer :

Hi, and thanks for you answer. I´m running both mouse/keyboard, and wheel, and it´s not hard changing gears manually, just haven´t been able to gain any time with it (yet). That´s why i asked you, experts, how much time you gain by driving manually, i mean, when you can do both, then it´s quite easy to compare the two, one would think.

safe riding to you

MPlayer

soon enough you'll discover yourself heading over to manual gears when you discover that there is nearly now way to get faster with autogears on some certain combo and you're still at least a sec off the pace....erm, that happend to me years ago atleast

Quote from -NightFly- :

soon enough you'll discover yourself heading over to manual gears when you discover that there is nearly now way to get faster with autogears on some certain combo and you're still at least a sec off the pace....erm, that happend to me years ago atleast

Imagine what a wheel can do mr. fly

didn't was faster to do drag races with autogears? I'm pretty sure this was discussed time ago

Lowering gears is quite unpredictable imo

No. In real life a purpose built automatic transmission can do faster shifts in drag races.

In LFS we don't even have an automatic transmission, just a mysterious ghost that shifts the manual transmission for you, in a considerably worse way than you would do.

In LFS the "auto gear" is a super slow AMT.

Normal auto transmission use torque converters which waste a lot of power. Most race cars don't like that.
The fastest racing gearbox for powerful race cars is DSG. Most VWSs in real life have DSGs but in the skin viewer we can see that our VWS will use traditional MT.

Quote from Crashgate3 :

It's not so much doing the shifts right that slows you down, instead it's more the fact that the auto gearbox only uses speed and revs to decide when to change, so you'll sometimes get it changing gear halfway through a corner or taking you through a corner one gear higher or lower than you want.

'Changing the gears correctly' is more a case of knowing *when* to shift rather than *how* to shift.

+1

I use auto gearbox out of necessity, not because I choose to use it. I would rather be able to shift manually, but I am physically unable to shift my self, so the auto gearbox is what I have to use in order to race.

I use a joystick for a controller. Once I find a setup that feels stable, then I have to start messing with the gear ratios, but I'm not that smart yet. Right now it's pretty much trial and error as far as getting the gears so that they are decent.

Quote from Meseplayer :

Hi, and thanks for your comments.
I thought so, but then again, you would have to be able to change the gears correctly to gain the 1 second advantage, and thats easier said than done....

MPlayer

It just takes time to get used to. At first you might be slower, just don't give up on it. Eventually you'll be shifting without even thinking about it and you'll wonder how you ever used auto-gears in the first place.

Hi

Eventually, is sometimes a very long time, a bit like learning to play the guitar, impossible at first, but after years of practice you play without thinking how to do it. I started the thread in order to find out if it´s worth while training for, if you win 0.5 sec per lap on perfect manual gearchange then....

thanks for your comments, nice that so many people noticed my thread.

MPlayer

I could not imagine playing any race game on auto gears. I would corner badly without it...

I know my entrance speeds for corners by the sound of the engine and how many downshifts I need to do. I have no idea what mph/kph I corner at, infact I dont even truly know the revs - I know the sound.

This meens i'm looking at the road as I approach a corner, and do not need to distract myself at a time when as a driver i'm otherwise quite busy.

This is emulative of racing in real life where I judge speed by feel: Audio is a vital clue in the absense of real g-forces, and without the audiable sound of your engine - which autogears precludes relying onl, the only way of judging your speed is to check dials when you could better make use of your concentration on other things.