So rather than a slightly-less-than-realistic workaround for accidents or offs due to other people's mistakes, you'd rather sit out an entire race? Sounds like great fun to me

How about a rotational nudge as if a couple of marshalls have rescued you?

This is the line between realism and fun. Even a 5 lap race is dull when you're forced to spectate. That way lies people leaving the server frustrated. I'd much rather have something that's not totally realistic but does get people back in the race and having fun again.
It'd need to have enough of a penalty that it couldn't be used all the time to save wreckers, but all you'd need is a 90-degree bump with a 30-sec usage refresh time. Add the rule that it can only be used when totally stopped and you have a built-in penalty system for it's use.

Quote from Dajmin :

So rather than a slightly-less-than-realistic workaround for accidents or offs due to other people's mistakes, you'd rather sit out an entire race? Sounds like great fun to me

How about a rotational nudge as if a couple of marshalls have rescued you?

This is the line between realism and fun. Even a 5 lap race is dull when you're forced to spectate. That way lies people leaving the server frustrated. I'd much rather have something that's not totally realistic but does get people back in the race and having fun again.
It'd need to have enough of a penalty that it couldn't be used all the time to save wreckers, but all you'd need is a 90-degree bump with a 30-sec usage refresh time. Add the rule that it can only be used when totally stopped and you have a built-in penalty system for it's use.

If there is real risk from an off it makes people not want to. This is a GOOD thing.

- It makes racing more exciting because there is risk.
- Makes you think about how and when you make a move.
- Makes you face the responsibility of your actions.

The change in reset was one of the best things to happen in LFS. The driving improved very rapidly after that change.

I am happy to wait for next round, that is just racing.

Here are some questions for you....

1) Is getting stuck against the wall in the MRT any different than getting stuck in the kitty litter in the MRT?

(HINT: NO. Your off has caused you to get stuck in some way that means you are unable to complete your race. They are the same, just the method is different)

2) Should the reset also get you out of the kitty litter?

3) If the reset does get you out the kitty litter should reset be allowed on any other car?

You can see where this ends can't you.

No reset is GOOD!

The difference is that facing a wall in South City you're still ON the track. The sand is OFF the track. So by giving the car a nudge so it gets moving again you're not only saving somebody's race, you're removing an obstacle from the track - hence the marshall bump suggestion.

Why should someone be punished (by having their race be over) because someone else ran wide and knocked them off course? That's simply not fair. It's no different to getting kick voted because somebody nudged you into the guy with the itchy vote finger.

In terms of the sand, that's a far more complicated issue. I can see the argument in favour, since it'd get you racing again. But I think the odds of ending up so wide you're buried in the sand because of somebody else's mistake are smaller than the odds of it being your own fault (either the initial incident or your reaction to it).

Racing isn't fair. If you want to keep racing, avoid putting yourself in situations that could knock you into a wall. It's called racecraft.

You tell that to the T1 guys who charge in at full speed and use innocent people like me to slow down

Keep out of their way. Knowing they're coming is half the battle won.

Do you think adding a reset thingy will make them more or less likely to be stupid into T1?

Maybe not, but it might save me afterwards.

I'm starting to wonder if I'm the wrong person to be making this argument. It makes very little difference to my race whether I'm knocked off at T1 or not - I'll be last either way

In that case, start last (more of a challenge anyway) and then you automatically avoid being hit in T1. Just drive passed everyone else sitting at the edge of the track

I used to do that - join a server, race until you start on pole for a few races (by winning a few), then go to the back of the grid and keep racing until you get back to pole. Repeat until sleepy.

Quote from tristancliffe :

In that case, start last (more of a challenge anyway) and then you automatically avoid being hit in T1. Just drive passed everyone else sitting at the edge of the track

I used to do that - join a server, race until you start on pole for a few races (by winning a few), then go to the back of the grid and keep racing until you get back to pole. Repeat until sleepy.

Yep. The race is NEVER won in T1. Let the morons off themselves hanging back. Now you have gained X positions for no effort and you can get on with the race.

Racing as Trist says is about racecraft.

For me there is NO difference getting stuck in the litter vs getting stuck against the wall. Both end your race. If reset is on one it should be on both. For me they are BOTH things to avoid and hence part of my thought process when I race, a risk to look out for!

RACECRAFT stops you getting offed in most situations and for the rest of the times well that is just the luck or lack of in racing.

can we at least get the server-side-only option of a nudge, only for the mrt, for those that want to have fun but don't want to be realistic to the point of frustration? Those who prefer to lose the race because their computer hiccuped for a quarter of a second, can have it turned off.

Quote from george_tsiros :

can we at least get the server-side-only option of a nudge, only for the mrt, for those that want to have fun but don't want to be realistic to the point of frustration? Those who prefer to lose the race because their computer hiccuped for a quarter of a second, can have it turned off.

You have been around LFS long enough to know you will not get it as a server side option. Scawen changed the reset ages ago for a reason.

Computer glitches are the same as disconnects, bad luck. How about an option where you are "reset" back to the pits with your lap count kept from the last time you crossed the line. This solves glitch caused crashes and server disconnect issues in one clean way that allows a safe restart in the race.

For people asking because of T1 crashes... If you are constantly involved in the T1 crashes it is probably a good indication you are one of the people causing the T1 madness in the first place. Good racecraft really will reduce your need for the resets in T1.

in reality there is no 'safe restart' guarantee.

what i'm getting at:

there have been accidents IRLR with the safety car. not while the safety car was out. with the safety car

why some things are acceptable for you (getting out of a race* because of a disconnect, glitch, bad luck, risk of racing) but others aren't ( risk of racing due to someone getting back in the track.)?

Quote from george_tsiros :

in reality there is no 'safe restart' guarantee.

what i'm getting at:

there have been accidents IRLR with the safety car. not while the safety car was out. with the safety car

why some things are acceptable for you (getting out of a race* because of a disconnect, glitch, bad luck, risk of racing) but others aren't ( risk of racing due to someone getting back in the track.)?

You mentioned computer glitches and we know they happen.

Things like glitches and disconnects effect us all. I put forward the idea of back to the pits/garage because in reality it is a great solution to the whole problem that also solved the No reverse in the MRT.

1) You are placed such that there is ZERO risk the push back/teleport will put you in the path of another driver.
2) There is a considerable penalty to the action not to make it attractive. You lose all progress that lap and have to exist the pits which loses more time.
3) I did not mention any repair in the reset.

The final thing that might make it more acceptable to many would be that if you car has bad damage the reset becomes spectate and you only find out which it is after you reset. This would make its use a risk.

You see the real trouble with what you are all asking for is there is no penalty. You are all just asking for the old reset to come back but just don't want to admit it.

This solution solves all those and aswers the issue of "just getting people back in the race" so they can have fun. People that run long races would also love this solution as a disconnect after 40 laps of a 45 lap race is a huge fear.

Given all this, why is this idea not an acceptable solution?

where did i ask for reset?

a car with reverse will find its way back on the track... and that is risky. but acceptable.

the mrt doesn't have reverse so... if for some reason you end up facing a wall, you do not find the nudging option acceptable because it is risky? no, it is not a valid argument, because if getting back on the track is risky it wouldn't be acceptable to do so in other cars too.

so why are you against a nudging option?
i am against the back-to-pits option because it isn't the most realistic option we've seen yet.

Quote from george_tsiros :

where did i ask for reset?

a car with reverse will find its way back on the track... and that is risky. but acceptable.

the mrt doesn't have reverse so... if for some reason you end up facing a wall, you do not find the nudging option acceptable because it is risky? no, it is not a valid argument, because if getting back on the track is risky it wouldn't be acceptable to do so in other cars too.

so why are you against a nudging option?
i am against the back-to-pits option because it isn't the most realistic option we've seen yet.

Its more the marshall are not allowed to aid a driver IRL.

The MRT is an Auto X car. That is what it is designed for from the ground up!

What is the real problem that anyone who asks for this reset apears to want it to happen instantly. That is what is NOT acceptable to many who complain.

The removal of the insrtant reset, as stated before, changed the driving in LFS.

If you are someone that needs it every race look at improving your driving. If its 1 in 10+ races then what is the issue?