Im just happy new things are coming.

Quote from Paranoid Android :

The problem is your thinking is morally correct but logically flawed. Till now there was no expectation of more content, just more development of the software. The one time there was in S2 with the Scirocco you can see where that lead to. Till now criticism could be cut down to its roots because it had no right to exist. People had already got what they bought for, and the rest was just immaturity, misunderstanding or opinions on the general direction of the product in the future. If the devs make people buy a bit of content AND a promise of more content, they will open themselves wide open to criticism. I do NOT want that for them, but people would have the right to give their opinion in the product they invested in and have expectations from.

Again, I'm sure the devs have thought this through and will find a way to protect themselves if they haven't already. It is too simple of a loophole to miss.

Ok,think i got your point now.
What can i say...im pretty happy with what LFS is offering me at the moment while im still looking forward for any good update.
The fact is that im tolerant,i know that unexpected bugs can show at any time,i know that those 3 have a life outside the game and the forum.
I respect their work,i trust them and i know they are working to pack an amazing game in its final release.
Was i sad when i heard that the content was delayed?Of course,but i know that shit happens and im still holding on to see more.
That's just my opinion,others can complain,if they want,but i think that sometimes is better to relax and enjoy WHAT WE HAVE NOW and not crying on what we don't have yet.
I still doubt that every single users has mastered each combo in the game

Quote from Paranoid Android :

I don't find the new business plan bad, but the biggest problem I can see emerging from that is that people will now HAVE the right to moan if development is slow.

Whether people have or have not the right to moan about development is beyond the point.

It's just it's been allowed so far on LFSforum. This forum needs a little revolution a bit like the one LFS is going through: set clear guidelines about what's OK to say and how is OK.

Basically, without a civil attitude you can't have a proper exchange of ideas. As long as people are allowed to play the internetz **** bosses smartassing anyone who they do not fancy, we are bound to have them around and our forum experience will always be sorry ass.

this may be my first post, but i felt i needed to add a coment. (edit 15th post)

A few years back i found LFS by accident, and downloaded the demo. After a few months of playing 1 car and track combo, and realizing this was clearly the one of the best products on the market, i paid 24pounds for S2.

Since then i have probably wasted hundred of dollars on games. NFS, GT4, GT5, RFactor, GTR2, GTREvo, and countless non driving games. And lets not forget alot of people pad $25 plus cars and tracks to TRY iRacing!!

I still play LFS regularly, (Go EAGLES!!) and it is the ONLY peice of software i can think of that has been on my system (mutlple system really) since i got it.

I am talking about years of use for only $40. To be honest, i am not even sure how the devs business model could even make them money?

So if the Devs say $20 for some new content and the next big step, I dont see how someone could complain. That would be what? a total of $60-$70 for what could end up being 5? 6? 7? probably more years use??

tell me of another peice of software that has that kind of longevity for that money?

Thank you
(EAGLE) VT-1

Does that mean that we are gonna have a new oval track? thats nice!
Also the national circuit layer looks awesome.

Cant wait

Quote from Takumi_lfs :

New track new car, nice...

Where is the promised wannabe rain? falling off parts? better graphics or whatever. They promised us alot but none got implented into the game. Why are they promising us those stuff if they arent even busy with it? We got this stupid barrier bug, no fix? Oh wait, just dont hit them. Riiiiiiiight.

Where exactly are these promises?

Your just being a whiney little bitch for the sake of it, and LFS is better off without people such as yourself

Wow. S3. Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. New physics system, new track, new car(s). Awesome!

Quote from Mazz4200 :

People will moan whether they have any right to or not, that's a given.

From experience, the Dev's have been pretty tolerant of all the complaining, it's only when it reaches a head that they tend to respond. From all the whinging posts i've read, i get the distinct impression quite a few folk in here simple don't "get" LFS, they don't understand the ethos behind the game, they don't understand the working practices, they don't understand the basic character of the game/it's community or the Developers, they don't understand the amount of work involved, or the spirit in which the whole enterprise lives. LFS is a bit like a cottage industry, or a friendly little country pub that only serves real ales and home made food. It's not a place that endlessly churns out insipid fizzy lagers or mass produced tasteless boil in the bag chicken tikka. It's a niche product, it's a quality product, it's a hand built, coach built Rolls Royce or Morgan car. LFS isn't Toyota or GM, it's a bespoke product, it's a thing of quality, not quantity.

Superb post, although I'm a new comer to LFS the above echoes my sentiments on the subject perfectly.

Quote from LFSn00b :

Scawen did a list of promises that needed to be filled before we can go beta.

This is what you're looking for...

Quote from Scawen :

The remaining GTR updates are part of the needed updates for LFS S2 to lose the ALPHA tag. Some other updates that should mostly be done to get out of ALPHA are :

- Improve collision physics
- Break off wings instead of bending
- Finish and release Westhill updates
- Improve track shadow rendering
- RB4 / UF1 / UFR interiors

I've noticed some discontent about the rate of progress and all I can do is assure you that no-one wants LFS out of ALPHA more than we do! Of course, by updating and releasing the clearly unfinished things mentioned here.

Quote from S3ANPukekoh3 :

I dont see why the devs are working on so many things at once? why didnt they just finish the tire physics and release the scirocco before starting to develop.... A WHOLE NEW LASER SCANNED TRACK???... Its pretty irrational imo, its common sense to finish what you have started and release it, then start something new.

I know all you kiss ups are going to play the "Scawen and victor can d whatever they like and well still wait for all eternity" card
But if this was my business that is what I would do.
Sadly it isnt.

You forgot Eric

Quote from S3ANPukekoh3 :

I dont see why the devs are working on so many things at once? why didnt they just finish the tire physics and release the scirocco before starting to develop.... A WHOLE NEW LASER SCANNED TRACK???... Its pretty irrational imo, its common sense to finish what you have started and release it, then start something new.

I know all you kiss ups are going to play the "Scawen and victor can d whatever they like and well still wait for all eternity" card
But if this was my business that is what I would do.
Sadly it isnt.

Because I suppose graphical(tracks, cars etc) update is independent project made by Eric, while physical(VWS' ESP, physics, tyres) site of LFS is programmed by Scawen.

Quote from Paranoid Android :

...
If now they buy S3 being able to access only one more track and a car, with the promise that more content will be added, they WILL have to right to moan that development is slow and that they want more cars and tracks faster. There has to be some kind of line drawn by Scawen when S3 is open for buying.

The only way I can see this working is saying that with the 12 pounds or so you will have the right additionally to only a track and a car, with MAYBE some others added in time (but again some people will feel they have the right to 2 and others the right to 6 add-ons). This may work but MANY people will feel it is expensive (not that I find that expensive). Or they just lower the prices, and start selling the tracks and cars separately as they come. This could be a win-win because everyone will buy them and it will pressure them to release more content to get the money flowing. And why not, with this business model they could contract people to do just one track or a car and get their cut.
...

Correct, the S3 license will not be sold on the promise of things to come. Although we imagine we will add additional content in future, and hope for an improved balance between the content available for different licenses eventually, there will be absolutely no guarantee of that. New content may come very slowly or not at all - anything could happen. Anyone who upgrades to S3 must do so only if they think it is worth it for the new track and the new car.

Quote from S3ANPukekoh3 :

I dont see why the devs are working on so many things at once? why didnt they just finish the tire physics and release the scirocco before starting to develop.... A WHOLE NEW LASER SCANNED TRACK???... Its pretty irrational imo, its common sense to finish what you have started and release it, then start something new.
...

Yes that is common sense, and that's what we were set on doing until the Rockingham opportunity came up. For me it wasn't easy to change course but as a team we decided that it was better to take a good opportunity when it came up. This was really quite a big adjustment to the plans, that is true. And that required the change of emphasis on the S numbers to refer only to your license and separate that from the software version. It's a different way of thinking that allows us to take up opportunities if they arise.

Great work!
I'd never think you would laser scan a track. The results are astonishing

I'm looking forward to the future releases!

I can understand how some are upset about the unexpected twists in the development schedule, especially if they have mastered every worthwhile combo. But to me it seems justified.
The physics engine has the highest priority. For that reason it's only natural that any opportunity to improve it overrides all other parts of the project, even promised content such as interiors. With Sirocco came a push to overhaul the physics engine, I'm sure this track has also contributed in many ways to its development. Considering the value of these additions I don't think the LFS team is in a position to be picky.

Quote from Scawen :

And that required the change of emphasis on the S numbers to refer only to your license and separate that from the software version. It's a different way of thinking that allows us to take up opportunities if they arise.

That makes sense

there's a lot of people on here that need to get real, would they expect to be given COD modern warfare 2 for free just because they've bought COD 4 ? i don't think so. it's always been known that LFS would be released in 3 stages called confusingly S1. S2 and S3. no one hid this so it's a bit rich to complain that you'll have to pay the third installment, even at a total of £36 LFS is worth every penny even if no more work is ever done on it, the netcode/ online playability alone is worth every penny.

the fact that it's currently known as S2 alpha is a complete non issue, if this was a true alpha or even a beta release, we would not be playing with it as that is what they have beta testers for. S2 alpha is just what the devs choose to call this stage of the development and now they appear to have chosen to call the next stage S3 (alpha ?) rather than S2 beta. so what ? yeah it'll cost you £12 but have anyone actually thought before moaning about how much one laser scanned track and one real car on iracing costs to use? taking, atlanta motor speedway a similar track to rockingham, and the jetta which is pretty close to the scirroco as examples you're facing a cost of $35 so to get both for just £12 is a bargin without the new tyre model etc. anyway you're not being forced to change to S3 anymore than the devs force demo users to buy an S1 or S2 licence.

if you like LFS be happy and relieved that the devs havent abandoned it to work on a new creation, if you really don't like the way the devs are developing this sim then, as we say on our COD4 server to people who moan about our rules, go find another one that has rules that suit you.

Quote from Scawen :

Correct, the S3 license will not be sold on the promise of things to come. Although we imagine we will add additional content in future, and hope for an improved balance between the content available for different licenses eventually, there will be absolutely no guarantee of that. New content may come very slowly or not at all - anything could happen. Anyone who upgrades to S3 must do so only if they think it is worth it for the new track and the new car.

Since this, people who say "it's only one car and one track" are theoretically right, although all we know they're practically wrong...

Or not.

Quote from tinvek :

... about how much one laser scanned track and one real car on iracing costs to use? taking, atlanta motor speedway a similar track to rockingham, and the jetta which is pretty close to the scirroco as examples you're facing a cost of $35.

Thats the reason i dont play I-racing.
Maybe it is tommorow the reason i dont play lfs anymore

Quote from Ger Roady :

Thats the reason i dont play I-racing.
Maybe it is tommorow the reason i dont play lfs anymore

Well the reason you're not playing iRacing is that you have to pay to buy the track, AND pay the monthly fee to race, which you can't do at all if you stop paying. At least with Lfs you could have the track forever and ever and ever . I wouldn't mind buying them as they come, like I said before I think it's an efficient business model and doesn't give the slightest right for people to moan.

Thanks for clearing that up Scawen I have been wondering how things will progress after the recent announcements. Fantastic news about rockingham, it was 100% the right move to take that opportunity. Can't wait to try out all the new features and upgrade to S3.

The quality will be remembered long after the price is forgotten.

Quote from Paranoid Android :

Well the reason you're not playing iRacing is that you have to pay to buy the track, AND pay the monthly fee to race, which you can't do at all if you stop paying. At least with Lfs you could have the track forever and ever and ever . I wouldn't mind buying them as they come, like I said before I think it's an efficient business model and doesn't give the slightest right for people to moan.

Problem with not making the tracks a package (like now with the S1/S2/S3 package) is that everyone will have different tracks what will make it difficult to arrange leagues.

Quote from Ger Roady :

Thats the reason i dont play I-racing.
Maybe it is tommorow the reason i dont play lfs anymore

Why is that? You don't have to buy extra content. I wouldn't mind if there came a new Sx package every year with a few new cars and tracks

I see no problem with it, and i fail to understand how people find a problem with how this will work, i really do.

Its S3 Content for LFS. How hard is that to understand? You want to race a league with rockingham in it? It requires S3 licence. You want to race on rockingham in servers, it requires S3 licence.

Its exactly like S1 licence. They cant use S2 content, but theres no issues for people who are on S1 to drive S2 content, simply because, they cant! They are limited, and soon S2 will be too.

just release the god damn track instead of telling us all about it and then putting it off for like nearly a year+ like you've done with the scirocco

i like lfs but i think the developers have got a jilted, twisted, unfathomable way of thinking... and shiz...grrr

Quote from Paranoid Android :

Well the reason you're not playing iRacing is that you have to pay to buy the track, AND pay the monthly fee to race, which you can't do at all if you stop paying. At least with Lfs you could have the track forever and ever and ever . I wouldn't mind buying them as they come, like I said before I think it's an efficient business model and doesn't give the slightest right for people to moan.

I would love a bussiness model like that. Small amounts of money for quality laser scanned tracks or accurately designed cars.

Quote from Bob Smith :

You can either have S3 now, and get the content as it is added, or wait 5 years, LFS can die, and all the content gets released an once - to nobody. Which option do you prefer?

What does this mean ? Is this some kind of blackmail ?
I dont accept u charge the community for the responsibilty of not supporting the LFS BUSINESS. I am no charity work. I will pay for what I get, not for marketing promises.
I dont really wish this but LFS can die, yes, I ll survive the bad news, as i did for many other. Like us all.

U are creating and maintaining Fear about LFS ceasing activity, and this is a crime to me.
May I wish u some light to guide ur steps.