Quote from lizardfolk :

Sure...let's review shall we?



If this statement was posted by someone else I probably wouldn't have had the interpretation that it was a snide remark.



Key words that make this post (to me) seem like a derogetory statement. Also the fact that you've listed multiple series that the general consesus seems to be "better" because they have a large variety in chassis and engineering. Did you need to list those series? Of course not, I dont spend 100% of my time watching just NASCAR...but you decide to do it anyway rubbing in the fact that NASCAR is "lower" cause of it's spec like chassis regulation. I've seen that argument used multiple times against NASCAR and even IndyCar (probably from you as well). Nevermind the fact that when it comes to NASCAR, the previous models were more different than Turismo Carretera, ASA and other stock car series. Yet you've ignored the fact that this is a stock car comparison.



Considering that it came from a highly outspoken critic who shares Tristancliffe and Vinnylegends' hatred of NASCAR, I wouldn't say that assuming your posts as snide remarks are unreasonable. Especially from someone who believes that NASCAR is the absolute bane of motorsports with one of the essential arguments is that NASCAR cars look nothing like their manufacture, nor are their differences big enough to actually mean anything despite having 4 constructors.

No offense, but your blowing this way out of porportion.

Saying the cars look the same is true, because the COTs definately are the same basic body. The old style cars after 2003-2005 are very much alike as well.

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/2006-nascar-2.jpg

So being like "ZOMG YOU ARE TROLLIN' !" makes absolutely no sense at all.

Quote from PMD9409 :

the COTs definately are the same basic body.

No they aren't!!! That's the point we are trying to make!

Quote from SidiousX :

No they aren't!!! That's the point we are trying to make!

The COTs ARE practically the same.
Only the hood area is different, but even then they are still relatively the same.

Quote from SidiousX :

No they aren't!!! That's the point we are trying to make!

Uhmmm...

Yes they are, as per the RULE BOOK!

All the cars need to fit the same template, where as the old rules had a different template for each make.

Quote from lizardfolk :

And dont forget V8 SuperCar where the Fords and the Holdens look incredibly similar (save the stickers). The difference between those two are also "laughably tiny compared to other forms of motorsport". :rolleyes: Ignorance is truly bliss

Disagree. There are several substantial differences between the FG Falcon and the VE Commodore including the front and rear lights, front grille, front airdam and rear wing.

Someone give lizardfolk a lollypop so he'll stop crying?

Quote from hansonator69 :

The COTs ARE practically the same.
Only the hood area is different, but even then they are still relatively the same.

Quote from TagForce :

Uhmmm...

Yes they are, as per the RULE BOOK!

All the cars need to fit the same template, where as the old rules had a different template for each make.

Please read the nascar car shapes thread...I'm done arguing with people who don't know what the hell they are talking about

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=61208

Quote from SidiousX :

Technically, they aren't the same bodies. They just have to fit a template, they do have different bodies, the differences are subtle, but they are there.

TOYOTA
http://www.theautochannel.com/ ... 007/10/16/067440.1-lg.jpg

CHEVY
http://www.jayski.com/schemes/ ... cup/48lowes-COT-front.jpg

DODGE
http://assets.speedtv.com/imag ... scs_kasey_kahne_car_m.jpg

FORD
http://www.mattkenseth.com/pho ... ristol/17Arby'sCOT700.jpg

If you look in the front of the nose, you can definitely see they are very different. They also have different engines(in relation to your question about the decals)

Seems like there are two American mysteries that cause turmoil in this forum: what happened on 911 and NASCAR.

Quote from SidiousX :

quotes and stuff

I said same basic body, and you can't say they are not since they all fit on the same template.

http://i.a.cnn.net/nascar/2006 ... .tomorrow.rusty.jarre.jpg

What's the third car in line?

@JJ: He fo real.
@xaotik: LMAO!

Quote from PMD9409 :

What's the third car in line?

Pretty sure it's a dodge

And those aren't even the CoT's they use..... It's obvious when you look at the grilles.

Quote from PMD9409 :

http://i.a.cnn.net/nascar/2006 ... .tomorrow.rusty.jarre.jpg

What's the third car in line?

That picture is from the testing phase of the COT. They're prototypes.

Who cares if they're different or not? The manufacturers are essentially sponsors at this point. Perhaps more involved than Cheerios, Budweiser, and National Guard, but whatever. There isn't much 'Ford' about Matt Kenseth's car.

Every team (those that build their own cars) uses a different car. They're not Fords, Chevys, Dodges, and Toyotas. It's Hendrick, Roush, MWR, Petty. From Engines, to chassis's, to bodies. They're all different 'brands' unto themselves. Even the bodies. Nascar gives the teams a bit of room to engineer. In other words, the templates have a tolerance that allows the teams to do their own thing.

Quote from PAracer :

That picture is from the testing phase of the COT. They're prototypes.

Who cares if they're different or not? The manufacturers are essentially sponsors at this point. Perhaps more involved than Cheerios, Budweiser, and National Guard, but whatever. There isn't much 'Ford' about Matt Kenseth's car.

Every team (those that build their own cars) uses a different car. They're not Fords, Chevys, Dodges, and Toyotas. It's Hendrick, Roush, MWR, Petty. From Engines, to chassis's, to bodies. They're all different 'brands' unto themselves. Even the bodies. Nascar gives the teams a bit of room to engineer. In other words, the templates have a tolerance that allows the teams to do their own thing.

Exactly my point. Even the engines are different(in some cases for the same manufacturer) One example is Red Bull Racing and Joe Gibbs, RBR uses TRD motors, and Joe Gibbs build their own motors.

The minor differences crap is getting old. IMO they are the same cars. If you're in the stands, all you see is a cookie cutter car with stickers on it.

Check my wording, keyword=basic.

The third car is a Ford, and whether or not they are prototypes or not doesn't matter. There are no stickers (grill and headlights) that are telling you what it is, and you get to see how similar they really are. I know that all bodies are different for aero purposes, but I was refering to looking at it from a "basic" point of view.

Quote from PMD9409 :

Check my wording, keyword=basic.

The third car is a Ford, and whether or not they are prototypes or not doesn't matter. There are no stickers (grill and headlights) that are telling you what it is, and you get to see how similar they really are. I know that all bodies are different for aero purposes, but I was refering to looking at it from a "basic" point of view.

The nose of the cars being different is pretty "basic".

Lol. I just thought of something. Why don't we have a thread about broccolli? We could have a few people in favor, then a dozen or so folks rambling on and on about how much they hate the stuff. All of this banter about "NASCAR this, and Nascar that" really the same thing.

For what it's worth, F1 cars look pretty similar to me. Swoopy open wheel cars with wings tacked on. Same with bikes, dragsters, v8 supercars. They all pretty much look the same. Perhaps that's why they're in the same race.

Quote from PAracer :

Lol. I just thought of something. Why don't we have a thread about broccolli? We could have a few people in favor, then a dozen or so folks rambling on and on about how much they hate the stuff. All of this banter about "NASCAR this, and Nascar that" really the same thing.

For what it's worth, F1 cars look pretty similar to me. Swoopy open wheel cars with wings tacked on. Same with bikes, dragsters, v8 supercars. They all pretty much look the same. Perhaps that's why they're in the same race.

Yes...the mob mentality of this forum is quite dreadful at times.

Quote from amp88 :

Disagree. There are several substantial differences between the FG Falcon and the VE Commodore including the front and rear lights, front grille, front airdam and rear wing.

Hmm, actually I would disagree but if you can prove me wrong I'd welcome it. I've attached pictures of the V8 SuperCars. From the front shot with the massive amounts of stickers the cars look essentially the same for me except for the massive rear wing.

When it comes to the nose, when you remove some of those stickers, the nose have slightly different grills and headlights but that's about it (as far as i can tell). Chassis wise I really cant see anymore different than that.

They still look incredibly similar to me.

Quote from lizardfolk :

When it comes to the nose, when you remove some of those stickers, the nose have slightly different grills and headlights but that's about it (as far as i can tell). Chassis wise I really cant see anymore different than that.

They still look incredibly similar to me.

hm, I wouldn't go as far to say you are blind.....but they have different roof lines, different waist lines, different fender design, different front and rear end because they were actually modified from the real car. No fender between those cars are the same.

The chassis themselves are modified from the stock as well, instead of a spaceframe/tubular chassis build from scratch.

Which can't be said with the Nascars, which is modified from a common template to resemble a real car.

Quote from JJ72 :

hm, I wouldn't go as far to say you are blind.....but they have different roof lines, different waist lines, different fender design, different front and rear end because they were actually modified from the real car.

The chassis themselves are modified from the stock as well, instead of a spaceframe/tubular chassis build from scratch.

Which can't be said with the Nascars, which is modified from a common template to resemble a real car.

Lets leave NASCAR out of this for a moment, I again looked at screenshots of V8 SuperCars and looked back at the front shot of the pic I just posed.

They just look like...sedans...that's it. I mean aside from the slight variation in headlights and grill. They both look extremely similar. Not similar to the point of indistinguishable. But still extremely similar. If you can get me a comparison photo of the V8 Super Commodore and Falcon. Then I might be able to see it, but I still dont see it as quite different

Quote from lizardfolk :

Lets leave NASCAR out of this for a moment, I again looked at screenshots of V8 SuperCars and looked back at the front shot of the pic I just posed.

They just look like...sedans...that's it. I mean aside from the slight variation in headlights and grill. They both look extremely similar. Not similar to the point of indistinguishable. But still extremely similar. If you can get me a comparison photo of the V8 Super Commodore and Falcon. Then I might be able to see it, but I still dont see it as quite different

stickless stock cars so you can see the difference in lines.

and side shots for better clarity:

Quote from JJ72 :

Is that the same model that V8 Supercar uses (i mean the EXACT model?) Cause that V8 Supercar looks like a "tube framed" version of this. I know the standard difference between the Falcon and the Commodore. But when it comes to V8 Supercar specs they just look similar to me.

It might be the massive amounts of stickers. But they still look similar.

Quote from JJ72 :

]Which can't be said with the Nascars, which is modified from a common template to resemble a real car.

Quote from PAracer :

Who cares if they're different or not? The manufacturers are essentially sponsors at this point. Perhaps more involved than Cheerios, Budweiser, and National Guard, but whatever. There isn't much 'Ford' about Matt Kenseth's car.

Good point, i couldn't agree more.

V8 supercars don't have "tube framed" versions, they use the exact same chassis as the road car with roll cages installed, and most of its panels.

That's why I show you a stickerless pic, cos all that sticker really disguised the line of the car.

Quote from JJ72 :

V8 supercars don't have "tube framed" versions, they use the exact same chassis as the road car with roll cages installed, and most of its panels.

That's why I show you a stickerless pic, cos all that sticker really disguised the line of the car.

I responded too fast. I only saw 1 photo. I'll take a careful look at the other photos now.

Mind posting stickerless pics of the Commodore?

I am trying to find one, but a clean racing version with a good angle is hard to find:



not a real photo, but I guess should be accurate enough.

I think they are different enough if you can tell by it's roof line and proportion alone:

The falcon has longer overhangs, rounder profile, more horizontal and lower waistline.

While the commodore has shorter overhang, more aggressive proportion and sharper edges, with a higher and rising waistline.