Ricou / Velo Wringer / Bob Smith :

I've just added a test debug message to this attached exe.

It displays the X and Y coordinates when you click or release the mouse.
Obviously it should be the same values if you click and release without moving the mouse.
I've displayed the raw (integer) values that Windows has sent in a message
and the converted (float) values.

Would you mind reproducing the bug and see if the "click" and "release" give dfferent coordinates while that bug is happening?

Maybe this will help us understand the problem.

ANYONE ELSE : THERE ARE NO OTHER UPDATES IN THIS EXE
JUST AN ANNOYING MOUSE CLICK MESSAGE - AND YOU CANNOT UNLOCK!

Quote from Scawen :

I'd like to know how that works.

Are all the offsets applied correctly?
Does the mirror work in 3d?
What about the shadows? I remember someone posting a 3d thing before and the shadows were all offset as well, because the shadows themselves are also a rendered image and they were being offset by the same software that was creating the offset for the 3d.
Does that use alternate frames to render the left and right views?

Yes the mirror works in 3D
the shadows are 3d too.. you can see on the picture the red color that actually makes the 3d image
you can see the pictures for more info
the bad thing is that the 3d mode drops the frame rate from 60 to 25..
if i race with 30+ players i gonna have 1fps so the nvidia system is not too good idea
im with nvidia geforce 9500 , 2gb ram, intel D 2.8

Thanks scawen to reply to my post

good luck and so less bugs than possible to your great work!

HIP HIP HORAY!

[Ignore]
Everyone stop post bugs, so scawen can :hide: release new stuff
[Ignore]

Quote from BOSCHO :

Yes the mirror works in 3D
the shadows are 3d too.. you can see on the picture the red color that actually makes the 3d image
you can see the pictures for more info
the bad thing is that the 3d mode drops the frame rate from 60 to 25..
if i race with 30+ players i gonna have 1fps so the nvidia system is not too good idea
im with nvidia geforce 9500 , 2gb ram, intel D 2.8

It renders the image twice from two slightly different view points afaik so no wonder your fps is halved
What I have tested the 3d effect works really good on some games and on same games it doesn't. Looking at those pictures with 3d glasses, the cockpit doesn't work at all, depth tries to bee too big and my brain can't connect the images properly. On the outside view the car looks really good though. Another trouble with red-blue glasses is that the colors are distorted and everything has this red/blue shimmer to it which gets annoying in the long run.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Having this feature in LFS itself would be great. It makes you feel much more there when not 100% glued to the car. Suspension movements and track unevenness become much more apparent than the current view system could ever hope of achieving to show. I think this would be a very good addition coupled with the new tyre physics and/or Rockingham.

The funny thing is, at least through InSim the basic functionality is a dead simple thing to code as I've found when implementing my own version. All you do is instead of instantly applying the car's pitch/roll to the view, you average the values over the last X physics iterations (say a queue/buffer size of 20) and apply that instead, coupled with the automatic camera smoothing of InSim. Then add a proper over-/underflow handling (so the view doesn't go beserk when doing a barrel roll) and you're done. No need for actually simulating the driver's head in any way.

The only issue I can see for a proper implementation is what to do when the user presses the look buttons or uses TrackIR (= does not look into the same direction as the car is pointed), and for both occasions simply disabling the free-float or fading the effect out the farther you look away from where the car is pointing would work as a preliminary solution. The real solution would of course be a proper translation of the car vector to the look vector and all the calculations that go with that... I can see how a proper solution could be too much work for now.

Now personally I have no problem with just continuing to use InSim for that, but I think a lot of people miss out on this great little feature unless it's implemented in LFS itself.


But sorry for OT, this has really nothing to do with the test patch.

This is a good idea indeed Android. However, I see one problem with it is that the view stays fixed to the horizon level and does not come back gradually to its "standard" position during the whole period during which forces are exerced on the car.

What would be best, I think, is that for a little moment the camera stays like in Camlevel, then goes back to the position defined by the incar view or custom view. You will notice when taking corners in real life that you tend to put your head back to its position during the corner instead of having it tilted all the time. This way, it would feel even better than with Camlevel as it currently is.

Apart from that, no bugs to be found on Z17 or Z18 for me Scawen. Keep up the amazing job !

Quote from Scawen :

Ricou / Velo Wringer / Bob Smith :
Would you mind reproducing the bug and see if the "click" and "release" give dfferent coordinates while that bug is happening?

i tried different combinations in softTH screen coords, but there was no difference.

windowed LFS goes correctly to the center screen, looks good, not squashed or anything. you can change the multiple screen options there, but when going back to full triple screen, nothing changed.

thanks for this, i know how you are longing to start with the physics

edit: when clicking on center monitor click and release values are the same

Quote from aroX123 :

[Ignore]
Everyone stop post bugs, so scawen can :hide: release new stuff
[Ignore]

How the hell are you supposed to be ignored if you post stuff anyway?

By the way, would you rather wait for something that will be complete with (almost) no bugs, or get something now that is totally st?

Kinda like comparing GT5 and Forza 3.

Quote from Zen321 :

What would be best, I think, is that for a little moment the camera stays like in Camlevel, then goes back to the position defined by the incar view or custom view. You will notice when taking corners in real life that you tend to put your head back to its position during the corner instead of having it tilted all the time. This way, it would feel even better than with Camlevel as it currently is.

This is exactly what happens when you average the view in a buffer as I described - it does NOT stay level with the horizon, but just "lags" behind the car's movement and smooths it out . If you start driving on a banked part of the road or up a steep hill, the view momentarily lags behind what the car does and then aligns itself with the car again. The "real life roll pitch insim" app already does this, you probably just didn't notice. Or you're talking about a different application that I don't know about (camlevel?).

Everytime I go to Online game > show list of hosts, let it load and then leave the game, it crashes with following address.

Quote from Scawen :

I don't know the reason. Are you using a wide screen mode? What is the effect of trying to use FlipCams... does anything happen at all? Is this the same for anyone who tries to use FlipCams with Z18?

Thanks for taking on this problem. - No, I don't use a wide screen mode, apart from a wide screen resolution (1280 x 720) which I haven't even changed between Z18 and the older (test) patches.

I still use FlipCams, but when I try to cycle through the views nothing happens, solely the text string appears - like it's supposed to do (see attachement). I didn't delete or modify any files or settings btw..

Quote from Flame CZE :

Everytime I go to Online game > show list of hosts, let it load and then leave the game, it crashes with following address.

have you maybe downloaded the .exe file what scawen just posted ?

Quote from hotmail :

have you maybe downloaded the .exe file what scawen just posted ?

No, I haven't, I'm using clean Z18.

Quote from Flame CZE :

Everytime I go to Online game > show list of hosts, let it load and then leave the game, it crashes with following address.

Cannot reproduce, but I notice that when I let the list load, click on a server and then exit LFS it takes an awfully long time to actually exit, leaving me staring at a black screen for several seconds.

It seems it's a host-related problem - when I select only Private hosts, it doesn't occur but it looks to happen when some hosts return no reply (as seen in the No reply : X).

Quote from Flame CZE :

Everytime I go to Online game > show list of hosts, let it load and then leave the game, it crashes with following address.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Cannot reproduce, but I notice that when I let the list load, click on a server and then exit LFS it takes an awfully long time to actually exit, leaving me staring at a black screen for several seconds.

I can't reproduce any of the above behaviours. Even let LFS list all 991 or so online hosts just to see. It closes just fine.

Same here with the flipcams problem.

The program appears to be operating properly - message appears, folders in /data are renamed - but the views aren't reloaded/updated from the files.

Edit: maybe LFS no longer reads the views file every time the view changes to custom?

Quote from Velo Wringer :

i tried different combinations in softTH screen coords, but there was no difference.

windowed LFS goes correctly to the center screen, looks good, not squashed or anything. you can change the multiple screen options there, but when going back to full triple screen, nothing changed.

thanks for this, i know how you are longing to start with the physics

edit: when clicking on center monitor click and release values are the same

OK... that is strange. At this point, I don't think I can fix it and I think it is a bug in SoftTH. Maybe you could have a word with Kegetys about that? If you do, please show him that post with the test exe. Or if you want me to contact him, let me know.

The reason I dont think it is an LFS bug is that when LFS is receiving a windows message saying the mouse has been clicked or released, it is saying the mouse is in a completely different position.

There is just one thing LFS does that might affect something... when you click the mouse, LFS calls "SetCapture" and when it is released, LFS calls "ReleaseCapture" but this should have no effect on mouse coordinates.

Quote from Flame CZE :

Everytime I go to Online game > show list of hosts, let it load and then leave the game, it crashes with following address.

Is it possible to get a call stack of that crash? I can't reproduce the bug, it I can't get a call stack. Your crash address is outside the LFS range of addresses so I don't know where that Windows function address was called from.

Quote from Degats :

Same here with the flipcams problem.

The program appears to be operating properly - message appears, folders in /data are renamed - but the views aren't reloaded/updated from the files.

Edit: maybe LFS no longer reads the views file every time the view changes to custom?

I think you have found the problem. LFS does not keep loading and saving the custom views if it has no reason to think anything has changed. I haven't looked into this properly. Maybe I will need to add a text command like "/reload_view" or something like that. Flipcams would need to be updated. How does Flipcams try to reload views? Does it flick to cockpit then back to custom view?

Quote from Scawen :

Is it possible to get a call stack of that crash? I can't reproduce the bug, it I can't get a call stack. Your crash address is outside the LFS range of addresses so I don't know where that Windows function address was called from.

No, I don't know how to do that. Is there any software required?

By the way, it seems that one host doesn't seem to appear at my LFS host list but does at the LFSW one.

When I set all public servers (demo, S1 and S2) and select UF1, XFG, XRG, LX4 and LX6 and do that query in both LFS and LFSW, the host called !!BOREWICZ!! doesn't appear in my LFS and one host is with no reply in LFS. And maybe it can cause the crash.

Quote from Flame CZE :

No, I don't know how to do that. Is there any software required?

I don't know, sorry.

MS DEV gives me call stacks. I have seen some users here have posted call stacks that have been quite useful. But I don't know how they got them.

Quote from Scawen :

How does Flipcams try to reload views? Does it flick to cockpit then back to custom view?

Default behaviour is: /press v then /shift v
An alternative behaviour commented out in the script file is /view custom.

Default won't do anything if you're not already in custom view, alternative switches to the new view regardless of current view.

Edit: If you were to add "/reload_view" the only change to flipcams needed would be to add that command to a single script file.

Quote from Scawen :

ABS brakes have been added to 5 cars (as a setup option) so for now you cannot upload hotlaps made in Z18.

I've never tried a test patch so far, but this feature has me intrigued.

Can you (or anyone else) say which 5 cars please? Not much point grabbing it and setting it up only to find out I can't explore it.

Quote from MudPuppy :

I've never tried a test patch so far, but this feature has me intrigued.

Can you (or anyone else) say which 5 cars please? Not much point grabbing it and setting it up only to find out I can't explore it.

XRG, XRT, RB4, FZ5 and FXO I think.

Quote from Scawen :

The reason is because the FOV is calculated all based on the central screen's FOV. The number of screens, screen widths and monitor angles all affect the final FOV...

I have found a little problem with. You adjust you FOV and monitor angles how you like, and then in game play adjust FOV with the 5 and 6 keys, if you put minium FOV and then put again the last FOV, the monitor angle will not be the same again and need to go to option and readjust. The simple and easy solution that I can think, is to not maintain the number of degrees of monitor when you increases FOV, so maintain the position of the Screen Slider. I don't know if I have explained well, it is very hard to me to express in english

And if the FOV is adjusted in the center monitor (I put arround 15º) it is possible to add 1 decimal? It has very low precision and have considerably difference between 11º and 10º

Sorry if I give you too work

Quote from Scawen :

......How does Flipcams try to reload views? Does it flick to cockpit then back to custom view?

I sent a PM to Flipcams developer...he will eventually show up.