hi, i wanted to know if you have a lot of real skills can help you to be a hard to beat virtual racer as in lfs, or if you have a lot of virtual skills can help you or at least it helps to you to improve in real life?


by the way what do you think about this:

the drivers that drive fastest cars, are usually the fastest in slow cars?

that is because a friend of mine that is S2, battles with me in the XF GTI and i beat him (he was on a wheel, and i were and im with keyboard) and he told me "im better with the "gtr" car class" so, what do you think?

edit: i already know that in real life, the g´forces and the temp, the focus, and how cool is your mind can be stuff that you cant have in a sim...

sorry for my bad english

lerts has a new account

Quote from jnr89 :

hi, i wanted to know if you have a lot of real skills can help you to be a hard to beat virtual racer as in lfs, or if you have a lot of virtual skills can help you or at least it helps to you to improve in real life?

"Real skills" and "virtual skills" don't have much to do with each other, in my experience.

Quote from samjh :

"Real skills" and "virtual skills" don't have much to do with each other, in my experience.

well, i can understand a lot of stuff of "real" skills after doing them on "virtual" skills, thats why i say the only diference is the heat, the g´s forces, the wind, and if you crash: the pain, the money, the gas you use lol...

but talking about reactions or reflexes, the understanding of the concepts "APEX", "braking points", "racing line" is something that virtual skills can help you to improve in that aspect..


i saw a professional driver testing GT4 back there when it was released, and he said "this kind of games can help you to study track courses", so i think there are some advantages of playing sims

Quote from jnr89 :

well, i can understand a lot of stuff of "real" skills after doing them on "virtual" skills, thats why i say the only diference is the heat, the g´s forces, the wind, and if you crash: the pain, the money, the gas you use lol...

but talking about reactions or reflexes, the understanding of the concepts "APEX", "braking points", "racing line" is something that virtual skills can help you to improve in that aspect..


i saw a professional driver testing GT4 back there when it was released, and he said "this kind of games can help you to study track courses", so i think there are some advantages of playing sims

See this thread.

Stuff like line and apex points are pretty much instinctual after about a year or so. Sims are really only helpful from a driving standpoint for newbies (they helped me quite a bit in racing school).

As far as track learning goes, yeah they can help, but in reality the amount of laps that it will save you is probably minimal. Still, it's better than nothing and they don't cost very much - even iRacing is dirt cheap compared to track time, so you might as well play it.

But from my experience, real racing experience can help a little bit in the virtual world, but things differ enough that a really good racer in real life won't necessarily be a really good racer in a game, and vice versa.

Quote from MadCat360 :

See this thread.

Stuff like line and apex points are pretty much instinctual after about a year or so. Sims are really only helpful from a driving standpoint for newbies (they helped me quite a bit in racing school).

As far as track learning goes, yeah they can help, but in reality the amount of laps that it will save you is probably minimal. Still, it's better than nothing and they don't cost very much - even iRacing is dirt cheap compared to track time, so you might as well play it.

But from my experience, real racing experience can help a little bit in the virtual world, but things differ enough that a really good racer in real life won't necessarily be a really good racer in a game, and vice versa.

wow man, nice thread, i was thinking as the only one who asks this question...

another point to show is, its known that professionals drivers help a lot in the development of sims, for example i read a while back that motoharu kurosawa (former japan champion, automotive journalist, test driver of honda, nissan, and some really hot laps on the ring..) he was involved in the development of a racing game called "enthusia" or something like that...

by the way, i had an old car without abs or power steering (corolla) and i could practice a lot with it, about the best braking without abs, or how to fix an oversteering or understeering, and forza motorsports and LFS help me a lot to understand the motions of the car

what do you race man? karting?

I race karts. Moving to cars next year, hopefully.

The danger with using a driver to help develop a game is that drivers usually have different driving styles and setups, and that's going to mean he gets a different feel, and thus a different opinion on what feels "right". Usually drivers don't really know the details about how the car does what it does - they just feel it and use it. It's probably best if sims consult with engineers more than drivers. Engineers know everything about their cars, except what they feel like to drive (most of the time). So it's good to have feedback from both (probably more so from the engineer).

uhmm...

Quote from jnr89 :

well, i can understand a lot of stuff of "real" skills after doing them on "virtual" skills, thats why i say the only diference is the heat, the g´s forces, the wind, and if you crash: the pain, the money, the gas you use lol...

but talking about reactions or reflexes, the understanding of the concepts "APEX", "braking points", "racing line" is something that virtual skills can help you to improve in that aspect..


i saw a professional driver testing GT4 back there when it was released, and he said "this kind of games can help you to study track courses", so i think there are some advantages of playing sims

the only similarity is the racing line
NOTHING else is the same. because i only have a keybord i struggle on LFS but i can win races in real life. lfs is the best sim i have ever tried but it still comes nowere close to real. for me i just see sims as a chance to drive cars that i would not normaly get the chance too and i know they won't feal like that in real life

Quote from jnr89 :

but talking about reactions or reflexes, the understanding of the concepts "APEX", "braking points", "racing line" is something that virtual skills can help you to improve in that aspect..

Reactions and reflexes... maybe. But sim cars and real cars tend to drive differently too. With sims, you're relying mainly on visual and aural feedback, whereas in a real drive you will also be relying on tactile feedback and equilibrioception (sense of balance). A Logitech G25 setup will not give you the same feel as driving a real car.

Another problem with sims and real life is visual perception. Perception of speed, closure rate with objects on the track, and angles are different on a computer screen. The screen is a 2D surface, but you'll be processing information in 3D in real life, which is a lot more demanding for your brain and eyes.

As for braking points and apex, a sim will only be of help if it is physically accurate. In real life, racing lines change dynamically as track conditions vary throughout a session. You've also got factors like dust, debris, rubber, etc. In a sim, you usually don't deal with such issues, so you can drive the same line lap after lap without fear of something unexpected.

The best help that a sim can give is to teach some basic theoretical concepts. But actual application of those concepts are quite different between sims and real life. Real life is much more complex and demanding than a sim.

I raced in LFS for 4 years and rode a street bike for 3 years before I started racing sportbikes on the track. Basically, as others already stated, sim racing helps a little with the concepts, but it still took me a year to get close to where I want to be in terms of skill and speed. At trackdays, riding a 70HP bike in the advanced group, I'm keeping up with and even passing some bikes with 100HP or more.

The tactile feedback is intense, but that's what makes real life racing so much better.

another stuff i wanted to write about the sims, is, that you can see how to avoid under/oversteering, at least the concept behind it, i learned it from that, i confirmed by seeing videos, and i usually did it on real life a while back when i had a car and a job in a car rental, driving diferents cars, is about the same, but the momentum is not, the weight distribution plays a major role in this

Quote from samjh :

Reactions and reflexes... maybe. But sim cars and real cars tend to drive differently too. With sims, you're relying mainly on visual and aural feedback, whereas in a real drive you will also be relying on tactile feedback and equilibrioception (sense of balance). A Logitech G25 setup will not give you the same feel as driving a real car.

Another problem with sims and real life is visual perception. Perception of speed, closure rate with objects on the track, and angles are different on a computer screen. The screen is a 2D surface, but you'll be processing information in 3D in real life, which is a lot more demanding for your brain and eyes.

As for braking points and apex, a sim will only be of help if it is physically accurate. In real life, racing lines change dynamically as track conditions vary throughout a session. You've also got factors like dust, debris, rubber, etc. In a sim, you usually don't deal with such issues, so you can drive the same line lap after lap without fear of something unexpected.

The best help that a sim can give is to teach some basic theoretical concepts. But actual application of those concepts are quite different between sims and real life. Real life is much more complex and demanding than a sim.

sorry for double posting but, actually, LOL, the first time i get LFS i feel like real life is easier, i mean, i was without a wheel just the keyboard, i noticed that must be the reason behind my statement, i took a friend of mine who is pretty old on lfs (since 2004?) and i give to him a "time attack" sprint on a road near from my home, i told him "look man, real life is easier" and he was pretty scare... i usually kicked a lot of better cars on the road with a underpowered corolla, i think in my country the noobs are a lot..

they are so noobs, they think that a FR car cant understeer and a FF car cant oversteer lol...

I geniunelly think that having played LFS for a couple of years before i passed my driving test saved me a couple of times when i just passed. for example, going a little bit too quickly on a wet motorway and having a moment, i instnctively knew how to catch it, which if i had never played any sims before i wouldnt have a clue.

Quote from DeKo :

I geniunelly think that having played LFS for a couple of years before i passed my driving test saved me a couple of times when i just passed. for example, going a little bit too quickly on a wet motorway and having a moment, i instnctively knew how to catch it, which if i had never played any sims before i wouldnt have a clue.

You had a moment on your driving test and they passed you? Or did you just mean in general?

Hell, out here in California, they'll fail you if an old lady falls over as you drive by.