Isn't the main question qiute simple?
Allow S1 racers and S2 racers to drive together on a host if the content is only S1?
Seriously, where is the problem there?
Just remember, S1 guys are no demo drivers, and they will not be more of a wrecker then the S2 racers.
The other thing is a way to allow users spectate a game. Allowing them to join the actual server will not be a good idea due to spam etc., but a spectator tool is already there, and Scawen has (iirc) already said that it would be nice to be able to spectate a race that also looks like the game, and not like a tool with 2d graphics.
Spectating must be more like a "Live MPR".

Quote from Chaos :

well again... if you race at Aston with any car, the people would not be able to join (maybe spectate, if allowed), but tell me, where the hell is the difference if you set up a race on FE Green with the MRT5, why the person who paid for the S1 content shoud not be able to join? He has the same right as you, to be there!

Or are you thinking: I paid 12 pounds more so why should I race this lowly ... who has not? He's some kind of rubbish that I don't want to come into contact with?

The difference is that I am S2 and he/she is S1 licenced. If I want to race against S1ers, then (as I have paid more) I can choose to do that. If S1ers want to race S2ers, then they can just pay more.

I don't care if they use the same track, same cars, same damage, same language. The point is that as they are not S2 licenced, they do not get to race on S2 servers. Simple.

As soon as they cough up more money for the devs to improve S2, then they are 1000000% welcome to race me and every other S2er.

Quote from tristancliffe :

The difference is that I am S2 and he/she is S1 licenced. If I want to race against S1ers, then (as I have paid more) I can choose to do that. If S1ers want to race S2ers, then they can just pay more.

I don't care if they use the same track, same cars, same damage, same language. The point is that as they are not S2 licenced, they do not get to race on S2 servers. Simple.

As soon as they cough up more money for the devs to improve S2, then they are 1000000% welcome to race me and every other S2er.

well just tell me how you can tell the difference wheter you race a S1er or a S2er, when you are both on one server...
btw it sounds you think that people with S1 license only are somewhat lesser racers than S2...

Quote from Chaos :

well just tell me how you can tell the difference wheter you race a S1er or a S2er, when you are both on one server...

because one has payed for the right and one hasn't

Quote from snewham :

because one has payed for the right and one hasn't

for what right? S1 licensed has the right for S1 content. What's wrong allowing them on S2 sever with S1 content??
Or do you think they don't have the right to race with you because you are S2 licensed? That's imo lame...

I for one can't think of ANY other demo for ANY other game that gives so much as LFS. The system works like this. Play the demo > either (a) love the demo and keep playing it forever for free (b) love the demo, buy the bloody game FGS! or (c) hate the demo, uninstall it and never give it another thought. Job done.

EDIT: Not the best of first posts, but hey!

Quote from Doorman :

I for one can't think of ANY other demo for ANY other game that gives so much as LFS. The system works like this. Play the demo > either (a) love the demo and keep playing it forever for free (b) love the demo, buy the bloody game FGS! or (c) hate the demo, uninstall it and never give it another thought. Job done.

I have abandoned the idea of demo users taking part in this... S1 and S2 licensed only...

Quote from Chaos :

for what right? S1 licensed has the right for S1 content. What's wrong allowing them on S2 sever with S1 content??
Or do you think they don't have the right to race with you because you are S2 licensed? That's imo lame...

S1 licenced > S1 content and S1 & demo servers

S2 licensed > S2 content and S2, S1 & demo servers


if you don't have S2 then you don't have the rightto experience the S2 cars. If you allow them on the server then they can hear, smell and touch the S2 cars and that nearly defeats the point of buying an S2 licence.

The S1 days have lasted long enough. People that still only have S1 should pay the 12 pounds or face it that they're only S1 licensed.

Quote from snewham :

if you don't have S2 then you don't have the rightto experience the S2 cars. If you allow them on the server then they can hear, smell and touch the S2 cars and that nearly defeats the point of buying an S2 licence.

are you serious?
you can hear them in videos, see them in the viewer...
and (at least for me) the main thing is driving those S2 cars on those S2 tracks...
which they would not be able to do without the S2 license...

and please read what Orion said... he got the idea... you obviously didn't...

Would you want to drive a car you have seen on a photo, or one that has just passed you with 250 km/h?

But this is not the main point, it's all about allowing the users to drive together if they are actually racing on the same tracks and in the same cars.
The idea to let racers join a server and race against people with a higher license is not so easy to realize in LFS (security reasons), but in real life it works, and I think this is actually where Chaos got the idea from
At many instant race tracks, which are open to the public, you will see all kinds of cars lapping together. Best example: the mysterious Nordschleife *giggles*

Quote from tristancliffe :

The difference is that I am S2 and he/she is S1 licenced. If I want to race against S1ers, then (as I have paid more) I can choose to do that. If S1ers want to race S2ers, then they can just pay more.

I don't care if they use the same track, same cars, same damage, same language. The point is that as they are not S2 licenced, they do not get to race on S2 servers. Simple.

As soon as they cough up more money for the devs to improve S2, then they are 1000000% welcome to race me and every other S2er.

They have already paid for lfs development, you paid an extra £12 to get access to extra cars and tracks.

By your logic fuel/pitstops/tire ware/and the updated s1 tracks should be denied to thouse with just an s1 licence.
And I would be happy for this to be true as the old version of s1 still exists, the problem is that s1 got one last makeover which just happend to use the same code as the full s2. The s1 people have got a free upgrade allready you will never know if your racing an s1 driver or not. So I really dont care if s1/s2 drivers can mix.



Maybe the s1/s2 seperate content should be gotten rid of. You want lfs in its current state it will cost £24 no Option to buy just part of it or old versions.

The point people are trying to make, is that there isnt any point in anyone buying S1, because there is no-one to race.

Allowing S1 licensed people play on S2 servers, which only has S1 options set, is a good idea.

It gives the S1 people someone to play with, so that their £12 they spent isn't wasted.

Quote from L(Oo)ney :

The point people are trying to make, is that there isnt any point in anyone buying S1, because there is no-one to race.

Allowing S1 licensed people play on S2 servers, which only has S1 options set, is a good idea.

It gives the S1 people someone to play with, so that their £12 they spent isn't wasted.

Yes, that's the point! And I would leave the possibility to buy LFS in 12 pounds steps... It's just in people's nature. If it costs 24 pounds they will not buy it. Let them pay the 24 pounds in 2 steps some days/weeks/months apart and they will eventually pay... It's somehow simmilar to buying a car on a lease...

As of the writing of this post, there are exactly four S1 specific servers online, all using the BL GP track, all private, and all empty. Meanwhile there are:

• 28 S2 Blackwood public servers with at least one S1 car enabled.
  
• 9 S2 South City public servers with at least one S1 car enabled.
  
• 15 S2 Fern Bay public servers with at least one S1 car enabled. Four of which have no S2 cars enabled.
  
• 2 S2 Autocross public servers with at least one S1 car enabled.
  

As far as online multiplayer goes, S1 users are getting shafted. Those who buy S1 as a way of testing the full product before committing to S2 will only see a paltry amount of empty servers. How is that supposed to encourage them to buy a multiplayer game? If they could race on the above servers with their S1 cars they would actually have a chance to race the cars they paid for against other people and they would help a lot in filling out the S2 servers, the majority of which are empty most of the time.

I have also observed a growing attitude of elitism and divisions into first-class and second-class citizens. Frankly, it disgusts me. To judge someone as being not worth racing against by how many tracks and cars they bought, regardless of how fast and clean they can drive is the most pathetic kind of discrimination I have seen.

Now I'm curious what the devs say about this problem, which is actually a very serious one!
All S1 racers are simply f***ed because they can't play the game they have paid for.

1. S1 racers can drive S1 cars in S2 servers if it's allowed, so they won't waste bandwidth.
2. When they do so, they encourages S2 players to play the S1 cars too, that helps the diversity problem. (doesn't people always complain about everyone driving GTR and FO8?)
3. Having a bigger pool of player is always a good thing.
4. Me myself, I am running a dedicated server for just road cars.

5. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY.

Allowing S1 player to join S2 server is an act of promotion, and there's NOTHING AS TOO MUCH PROMOTION. You can say we are already giving them enough, of course, but don't you realize the number of potential customers is still very big for S2 even now? There're still many racers that we can attract in this stage of the game. We can even wipe off the demo if we like, but isn't us the one who suffer? If you don't see the potential buyers and value them appropriately then the grow of the game will soon come to a halt, it's fine with S2, because it's 24 pounds and cost the same as most games, but what will happen when S3 is out? Will you still expect people to suddenly jump to S3?

Don't remember S2 isn't an end, it's just a stage of development, what we need is a strong foundation, what we invest right now will payoff when S3 is out, I urge you to have a wider vision and acknowledge the value of such act.

Quote from snewham :

you shouldn't be able to get any kind of S2 content if you haven't payed for it. That includes spectating.

OH YEAH.

Spectating a race is no different from watching a live video broadcast, now tell those S1 payers to stay away from the S2 screenshot section, S2 movie section, oh even S2 discussion threads too......because they didn't pay, eh?

And yeah Chaos maybe you can remove the word "demo" from the thread title now.

Quote from Phlos :

How you think the game will show S2 cars (or tracks ?) if the content is not decrypted ?

:iagree:

Quote from JJ72 :

And yeah Chaos maybe you can remove the word "demo" from the thread title now.

I tried, but I can't... Only moderators can...

Quote from 1993S14 :

:iagree:

If you have bought S1, part of the code is decrypted, why not decrypt the whole? It's no problem not allowing S2 cars and tracks in another way...

EDIT> added a poll..

Quote from Chaos :

If you have bought S1, part of the code is decrypted, why not decrypt the whole? It's no problem not allowing S2 cars and tracks in another way...

no problem for you, because you are not programming LFS

i think just allowing s1 racers on servers with s1 content will be a lot easier to implement, and the time that it saves can be used by scawen to do more important stuff, like physics

I think they should either remove the option to buy a new S1 license or set it somehow so that if a dedi server is only using S1 content then it's flagged or something as an S1 server. It would still be in the same server list for S2 players so that they will see it and possibly join. If the admin wants to change something and allow some S2 content he will get a warning saying that doing so will disconnect all S1 drivers.
If they continue selling S1 licenses then they should make a note for people saying that the vast majority of people are either on the demo or S2 and that they might not be able to adequately test out the multiplayer aspect.

To be honest though I think the simplest thing is to stop selling S1 licenses, paying the full price for S2 is not expensive and it just creates confusion. S1 is the old S1 to me, the new S1 is more like S1.5.
I think everything would be so much simpler if there was just S2 and the S2 demo. People who own S1 can still unlock it as they do now but stop selling new S1 licenses.

Quote from tailing :

I think they should either remove the option to buy a new S1 license or set it somehow so that if a dedi server is only using S1 content then it's flagged or something as an S1 server. It would still be in the same server list for S2 players so that they will see it and possibly join. If the admin wants to change something and allow some S2 content he will get a warning saying that doing so will disconnect all S1 drivers.
If they continue selling S1 licenses then they should make a note for people saying that the vast majority of people are either on the demo or S2 and that they might not be able to adequately test out the multiplayer aspect.

To be honest though I think the simplest thing is to stop selling S1 licenses, paying the full price for S2 is not expensive and it just creates confusion. S1 is the old S1 to me, the new S1 is more like S1.5.
I think everything would be so much simpler if there was just S2 and the S2 demo. People who own S1 can still unlock it as they do now but stop selling new S1 licenses.

Well why remove the option to buy the game in parts? For you 24 pounds is maybe not much, but there are people for which it is and they are not willing to pay it at once... Buying the game in parts seems to partially solve this...

..and you can't force the people who have already bought S1 not wither pay for S2 or leave LFS.