Ok, this is WAY out of leftfield, but I thought I'd float it here to see what people think.

Last night I was talking to my housemate, and he is currently developing an online gaming tournament system, at the moment its for games like CS, but I wonder if it would lend itself to LFS, in basic terms, people turn up for a game they put money into a "pot", say £1 each, then at the end of the race/races the winner wins money, less for 2nd, etc etc.

Is it worth him looking into making it work for LFS?, or is this not something that would work or people would'nt like.

Dan,

Personally, it's not something I'd be interested in.

When you see how tempers flare during 'fun' races, imagine what it would be like if money were involved!

(Apart from that, I'd have no chance of winning anyway! )

Serp.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Only problem with LFS is it'd be too easy to win the money by driving dirty.

Would it though?, obviously there would be an admin present and rules would need to be followed, just thought it would be something to offer LFS that no other race sim has.

Dan,

I think most of the slower / less experienced people would feel they have to pay for the faster participants. Most people would feel better with a 'normal' contribution system where everyone has to pay a bit and at the end there a some prices (which could be money). Of course, it's the same idea, but how you present it can make a big difference.

Of course, its the most embryonic of ideas at this point in time, and can be changed/fettled to suit, I just wanted to gauge if it was worth pursuing.

Dan,

With lag issues (nothing that is LFS' fault, just internet connection in general) and very unfair racers, the server would turn into a mess. At the same time, if it is used for a private audience - ie. paid league with monetary prizes, it could be good.

I already absolutely love losing to a field full of FZRs because they drive a vastly superior car, but now I would be actually be able pay for it - every single race? Count me in!

So i'll take it as a resounding no then LMAO

Dan,

I like the idea- it would certainly give people an incentive to finish long races and keep their game up. i do think that it would have to be organised heavily though

not sure if something like this would even be fully legal in germany ... most certainly not for underaged racers

Danowat,

The idea in general, give or take a few modifications is sound. I would imagine that this would have to happen in a league environment and instead of money being the prize, make it something brought with the money.

However with the sheer amount of leagues avaliable to people, most will choose to sign-up for a free league than a pay to enter league. Therefore I think personally you will struggle to attract enough "customers".

Also like Shotglass said you would have to look at the legal side of things.

LFS is too open to mis-use. Look how much trouble wreckers are giving. Then imagine how it would be if money is at stake.

Scenario:
- A and B sign up for the race.
- B qualifies as last.
- A creates havoc at T1, taking out as many cars as he can.
- B drives around the scrapheap and takes the win.
- A and B share the prize (and a laugh).

I like that in the LFS community there is nothing to be won except fame. No WC3-like players saying "Eh, only 1000 bucks first-place prize? I'm not playing this for fun! Come back when you've got a serious tournament!". Just pure driving for the sake of having fun.

Vain

Quote from wsinda :

LFS is too open to mis-use. Look how much trouble wreckers are giving. Then imagine how it would be if money is at stake.

Scenario:
- A and B sign up for the race.
- B qualifies as last.
- A creates havoc at T1, taking out as many cars as he can.
- B drives around the scrapheap and takes the win.
- A and B share the prize (and a laugh).

lol I think Danowat is talking about S2 servers, not demo servers

Not sure if it would work or not, saying that you have to pay a subscription to enter the ESL Germany races and they have big prizes in store. Well thats what I thought anyway

Keiran

Quote from wsinda :

LFS is too open to mis-use. Look how much trouble wreckers are giving. Then imagine how it would be if money is at stake.

Scenario:
- A and B sign up for the race.
- B qualifies as last.
- A creates havoc at T1, taking out as many cars as he can.
- B drives around the scrapheap and takes the win.
- A and B share the prize (and a laugh).

"A" would only do it once, and wouldnt be allowed to race again, but yes, I appreciate that there is room for cheating.

Of course it would have to be organised well, using well vetted people as admins, but like I say, its just an idea.

Dan,

I think for this to be popular, you would need to wait for the devs to implement some sort of weight penalty handycapping system.
that way drivers of different abilities could expect some chance of winning.
So you need a reasonable accurate rating/handycapping system - which should be easier to do for a pay per race deal than for free servers.

you could cope with unfair car/class issues by having something like the 'elite athletes with a disability' events in the commonwealth games - where the winner is the one who gets closest to the world record for their class (not the fastest lap, but fastest for that race length). Or just by adding more weight to the faster cars. Or best of all, by having single car type races.

you would probably need to require folks to book a minimum number (say 10) of races in order for handycapping to even out. this would also help to prevent cheating - anyone who is obviously wrecking or working as a team would be barred from any other races they have left, and lose their entry money.

sounds like a lot of organising, especially if no one is interested

Quote from col :

sounds like a lot of organising, especially if no one is interested

Exactly, which is why the idea is floated here first

Dan,

Quote from danowat :

Exactly, which is why the idea is floated here first

Dan,

I would guess, if you can get some sponsorship to provide extra prizes in addition to sharing the entry money, people would be interested

doesn't have to be big stuff like cars or big money (would be nice )
could just be a new wheel, computer hardware, go-carting session at your nearest track etc. That would be enough to get me interested

and of course a winners cup + champaign hehe

Quote from col :

I think for this to be popular, you would need to wait for the devs to implement some sort of weight penalty handycapping system.
that way drivers of different abilities could expect some chance of winning.
So you need a reasonable accurate rating/handycapping system - which should be easier to do for a pay per race deal than for free servers.

you could cope with unfair car/class issues by having something like the 'elite athletes with a disability' events in the commonwealth games - where the winner is the one who gets closest to the world record for their class (not the fastest lap, but fastest for that race length). Or just by adding more weight to the faster cars. Or best of all, by having single car type races.

you would probably need to require folks to book a minimum number (say 10) of races in order for handycapping to even out. this would also help to prevent cheating - anyone who is obviously wrecking or working as a team would be barred from any other races they have left, and lose their entry money.

sounds like a lot of organising, especially if no one is interested

A fair suggestion certainly, but with that sort of system implemented I don't think it would be a competition that stays popular for very long. Contests that "reward failure" are off-putting to anyone other than those lowest on the ladder of ability. They're ok for a bit of fun, but when money is involved it's a different story altogether.

Quote from col :

could just be a new wheel, computer hardware, go-carting session at your nearest track etc. That would be enough to get me interested

You would'nt believe how difficult that is to arrange

Dan,

Quote from sinbad :

A fair suggestion certainly, but with that sort of system implemented I don't think it would be a competition that stays popular for very long. Contests that "reward failure" are off-putting to anyone other than those lowest on the ladder of ability. They're ok for a bit of fun, but when money is involved it's a different story altogether.

IMO, there is nothing more off-putting than having a competition where 2 or 3 guys win everything - unless entry is free.
Handycapping, if done well can even up the balance without making it impossible for the fast guys to win. And if it was set up depending on race finishing position rather than 'ability', it helps with other stuff like bad luck

it needn't 'reward failure'

The guys who are fast, deserve rewarding.

It's this type of mentality, the type of taking part and creating an even playing field despite differences in ability, that means UK sport (in a lot of areas) are making up the numbers compared to other countries.

Quote from Chris_Kerry :

The guys who are fast, deserve rewarding.

It's this type of mentality, the type of taking part and creating an even playing field despite differences in ability, that means UK sport (in a lot of areas) are making up the numbers compared to other countries.

IMO the reasons for the lack of success in UK sport have nothing to do with 'this type of mentality' as you put it - but that's a whole different issue.

There is a huge difference between top level professional sport and amature recreational sport.

If you want to do a top level professional racing league, of course you don't have a handycapping system. But, you would also need a very large marketing campeign, big sponsors, and big prizes for the winners - maybe enough so that they can train full time. You have to try and attract all the top racers, and you don't want anyone else - only the elite - or your sponsors may not be so happy

Alternatively, you can have a low level, small stake, small prizes setup for lots of 'evening/Sunday racers' - racers of all skill levels. If you do this without Handycapping, the 'pros' will mop up all the winnings, and the whole thing fails !

My gut feeling is that the OP is thinking more on the scale of amature competition rather than the big bucks pro game.

so, who is it for ?

Quote from col :

IMO, there is nothing more off-putting than having a competition where 2 or 3 guys win everything - unless entry is free.
Handycapping, if done well can even up the balance without making it impossible for the fast guys to win. And if it was set up depending on race finishing position rather than 'ability', it helps with other stuff like bad luck

it needn't 'reward failure'

I understand, but if you give someone who loses more chance of winning, you are rewarding them for losing and penalising the winner, that's the very basis of a handicap system.

If I've won a few quid, but now suddenly it's much more likely that I'll lose some money until my handicap is reduced/removed, I'm much less likely to take part.

Small scale amatuer, rather than full scale pro, although I don't really see it fitting into either of those two, rather somewhere inbetween.

Dan,