I always wonder why only the cars with giant wings create downforce in LFS. Every car creates either lift or downforce, to some extend. So I think the LFS cars should do so too.
Some cars create as little as 5 kg of lift on one axis, but I nevertheless think LFS should take this into account.
It calls itself a sim after all, doesn't it?

Vain

Yep, most road cars produce some lift, usually more at the rear than at front.
The effect is minor, but worth including. Should make the road cars a bit more fun at high speeds too. :mischievo

+1

what if the roadies already do that, and you just can't measure it?

so how can you tell they don't in the first place?

Downforce is indicated in force-view.
Also, if you still don't believe me, get a look at F1 perfview.

Vain

:doh:

Quote from Bob Smith :

Yep, most road cars produce some lift, usually more at the rear than at front.
The effect is minor, but worth including. Should make the road cars a bit more fun at high speeds too. :mischievo

The effect isn't really that minor. A Porsche 911 will generate 600 lbs of lift at 150mph! Have a look here for some data on road and race cars:

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/data.html

I know, I was trying last night to get a BF1 to do the whole flip backwards by mucking with sets, but I couldn't get it to, even with a jump, so I think that lift needs to also be implemented, just because real life there is lift too.

aero not finished....

I know that, I just thought that in light of the last patch, something may have been added.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Yep, most road cars produce some lift, usually more at the rear than at front.
The effect is minor, but worth including. Should make the road cars a bit more fun at high speeds too. :mischievo

first, i'm not good at aerodynamics, but i always thought that normal roadcars don't lift their axles, more like beeing pushed/sucked down, due to air flowing over/under the car...

like the ground effect on some early F1 cars, but much smaller though.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

I know, I was trying last night to get a BF1 to do the whole flip backwards by mucking with sets, but I couldn't get it to, even with a jump, so I think that lift needs to also be implemented, just because real life there is lift too.

you cant, going backwards does affects the cars only to an extent at which .. there is no downforce, but no uplift like there should be

Quote from micha1980de :

first, i'm not good at aerodynamics, but i always thought that normal roadcars don't lift their axles, more like beeing pushed/sucked down, due to air flowing over/under the car...

like the ground effect on some early F1 cars, but much smaller though.

look at a cars profile ... most of them somewhat resemble a wing profile (especially true for the 911) => lift

I must agree with this. I've taken most of the "really fast" cars in LFS, lifted the front of the car and kept the back low, and have gone about 190mph. Neither refused to create any lift to make me go out of control. In "real life", my car might have flipped and then crashed.

They had very little grip, and spun on straight.

Also, wouldn't a car with 0 downforce, high front; create lift?

I hope that in a patch, it will happen.

Quote from XCNuse :

you cant, going backwards does affects the cars only to an extent at which .. there is no downforce, but no uplift like there should be

I would imagine that an F1 car travelling backwards would generate very little lift and unbelievable amounts of drag. Wings aren't things you can just reverse (especially the highly cambered wings on an F1 car).

+1 for this suggestion.

well.. all cars with downforce are the same way, go into reverse and there .. is no downforce, and you actually can go faster since there seams to be no resistance at all

Scawen has said (I believe) that the aero effects of the undertray isn't modelled nor is lift YET...

Lift (be it positive or negative) changing due to the pitch of the car is known not to be modelled. That wasn't the main part of the topic though.

A normal cars bodyshell is shaped in such a way that it gives positive lift (an effect caused by the airflow distance over the top of the car being a longer than underneath (where it's flat)). Obviously designers/stylists try to minimise this, but you can't get rid of it completely without making the car look like a box, or by swooping the bottom of the car up to meet the rear, to mirror the front (see Bristol Fighter).

Lift is already modelled in LFS, however it is currently only on the cars with aerodynamic aids, and is always negative. We just need some positive lift attached to the bodies of all the cars. It doesn't involve any physics not already in LFS, just a positive Cl instead of a negative one.

I can't imagine it taking anywhere near as long to add into LFS as aero changing with pitch would...

But why no downforce on the old S1 road cars? they have 'wings' so in the case of LFS being a realistic sim they should also have some amt of downfoce modelled?

No, they have spoilers NOT wings. The aim of the spoiler is to keep the air flow attached, and reduce drag and lift, not provide downforce.

Quote from tristancliffe :

No, they have spoilers NOT wings. The aim of the spoiler is to keep the air flow attached, and reduce drag and lift, not provide downforce.

I stand corrected, thanks Tristan

Quote from tristancliffe :

No, they have spoilers NOT wings. The aim of the spoiler is to keep the air flow attached, and reduce drag and lift, not provide downforce.

Erm...a spoiler causes the air flow to separate earlier than it would without a spoiler fitted. Hence the term 'spoiler' Spoilers reduce lift (in some cases they can even generate downforce) at the expense of adding drag, though the added drag is usually quite small.

Not according to my Vehicle Aerodynamics lecturer...