In the interest of a better learning experience for the new players, I suggest a better AI to race, or train against.

My experience is very low, but I can already beat the pro level AI quite easily.

I realize this is probably the most difficult aspect of the game to create and then attempt to adjust to realistic standards, but there are clearly some huge issues that might be easy to fix a little at a time.

Racing in the Kyoto Ring Oval in BF1's against the AI seems more like a battle of luck then lap times. I have seen the same AI Car apparently stuck in the middle of a banked corner many many laps before I or another AI accidently hit it. Sometimes half of the field is heavily damaged, there are groups traveling well below any reasonable speed, or alot of them are off track and stuck.
Using slower cars, once you get through the first few turns of a road course they all seem to line up and present no challenge to themselves or you. Sometimes they seem to get off the racing line in an attempt to pass, but it is poorly timed or they lack the required speed and come no where close. I could go on and on, everybody must know what I am talking about if they have ever raced offline.

I know the focus of this game is the online racing and leagues, but an improved AI could go a long way in getting people more ready for online racing. One of my biggest challenges has been to learn to overtake safely against players. Playing wrecklessly is not my intention, but it can often appear that way to the player(s) I just accidently wiped out attempting to overtake. The AI gives no real challenge/experience at this because it is so poor.


I would imagine this is a topic that has been covered, but I am unsure how to find it.

Also, more rally tracks and bigger ones!!!

Scawen knows they aren't finished and wants to improve them some day in the future.

We got some big improvements on the AI a while ago. Still, it's a work in progress. Perhaps it will get looked at again after the physics are more finished. If the AI was improved again now for example, they have to be done again after the physics are improved. So it would a bit of awaste to improve them soon again.

I think also one of the biggest problems to make them really good is that they have to drive under the same conditions any real players have. They can't cheat so to speak like catch-up mode in arcade type games and Scawen has said himself, "It's very difficult for me to write computer programs that can drive as fast as you." The AI have to "do the driving" like us.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=634201#post634201

It is unfortunately not an easy task to write AI routines that make them drive as fast as a human while still being restricted to the same physics. Games like rFactor/GTR can make fast AI opponents because they actually don't use the same physics engine or restrictions, so the AI is basically cheating.

Raw speed isn't everything either. It is equally if not more difficult to make the AI behave human-like, as in planning passing manoeuvres, predicting opponent behaviour and reacting to suddenly changing situations, etc. Without such behaviour it is impossible to learn proper racecraft from the AI alone, and the worst drivers can be those that are fast but don't know how to properly pass or behave around other racers.

Now I'm fairly sure the LFS AI could be improved in many aspects, but overall actually doing that would be kinda missing the point. The AI is at best a tool to help newbies get up to speed on basic racing techniques before venturing into the online world, and it's already doing that quite well for people who choose to go this path. Once you can beat the AI on pro setting on a a racetrack, you're definitely ready to go online speed-wise. Investing any more time into improving the AI for an online racing simulator if you have only one person who does the programming would be a complete waste of time.

That said from what I saw in your post you were actually using the AI on BF1/KY1? This is probably the worst combination you could choose, to be honest. For one the BF1 is a car of extremes, and as such it is even more difficult to make it fast. But the far bigger point is that the oval racing in LFS is a bad joke at the moment. For proper oval racing the sim needs to focus on a bunch of rather specific physics and setup aspects, which it currently simply doesn't. The AI would also need to be tailored specifically for oval racing techniques that have nothing to do with normal racing. I really hope you didn't buy S2 for the oval...

What if AI uses apexes instead of lines. That way it will be more flexible.
It will calculate the line real-time using the apex. It will get braver and braver, and having later braking points. It can also learn where to place the apex to get the ideal line. It can also learn better throttle control, better/later braking.

Now, it's only restricted to one line, and that's it. The real-life drivers change their line as they get better.

They can also have modes, like aggressive, tire saving, etc.

You could try to beat them at an other track at pro level. Kyoto Ring is the easiest track there is to race the AI.

Well, I remember some good fun racing with AI Raceabouts at Blackwood (normal and reverse). I guess it can be as much fun on the other circuits as well.
Just mix them randomly in - Pros, Newbies, all different levels together and you'll see that they crash, overtake themselves, make "mistakes", and so on...
Maybe the same "mix" philosophy works well with other cars too.

Quote from Ivo Georgiev :

What if AI uses apexes instead of lines. That way it will be more flexible.
It will calculate the line real-time using the apex. It will get braver and braver, and having later braking points. It can also learn where to place the apex to get the ideal line. It can also learn better throttle control, better/later braking.

Now, it's only restricted to one line, and that's it. The real-life drivers change their line as they get better.

They can also have modes, like aggressive, tire saving, etc.

The AI was a learning AI that constantly modified its lines before the last AI update, but that approach was apparently scrapped due to being even slower than trying to follow a hardcoded line.

They dont crash much these days but i dont thing ai cars will ever be perfect, I race with them in the mrt and close racing is out of the question as they tend to get confused and either swerve and take u out or brake. best to drive online m8.

Cheers jj

Different AI drivers can use different setups. Try it! When I race offline, i put 19 AI with 4-5 different setups and random starting grid, and i place myself to the 20th position. There will be overtakes, accidents...

If You are too fast, take some extra weight.

Quote :

What if AI uses apexes instead of lines. That way it will be more flexible.
It will calculate the line real-time using the apex. It will get braver and braver, and having later braking points. It can also learn where to place the apex to get the ideal line. It can also learn better throttle control, better/later braking.

The problem is that sometimes hitting the apex is much slower compared to another line. Plus, youd have to define what an apex is. Youd also have to find the perfect turn in for it to work properly.

I hope they improve it and note in hundred years. For how many years we here the same ))))