I could use some help on this:

I have a very nice UFR set with R2 in all wheels. Now I need to change it to a race setup keeping as much of the original feeling as possible.

I have changed the front tyres from R2 to R3 losing grip in the front and this causes understeer changing the whole balance of the car.

I'd like to change the global understeer/oversteer balance so I can get a set that has a similar handling as the original all-R2 one.

Basically I want to move a little grip from the rear to the front making the least -easiest- possible changes. I've tried raising pressure in the rear tyres so they slide a little more, and also tried specific damper changes for better corner entry/exiting, but I didn't get any good results. I just want a set that handles as the original one but has less overall grip.

Any help?

Keeping the handling characteristics the same is impossible, other than simply changing the rears to R3, too.

Just think about it. Anything you'll do to the setup to re-balance the over-/understeer ratio *will* affect the car's handling in one way or another, since there is no setup option that affects the tyre coefficient of grip alone.

That said, the simplest changes are probably raising the tyre pressure and decreasing the negative camber of the rears.

Why would you fiddle with the dampers? Dampers are primarily for tuning transient response, not overall balance.

Change the ARB balance. You may wish to try changing the springs, but that will require damper changes as well.

Trying to get the rear to slide more by reducing rear grip is counter-productive. You're not changing the overall grip balance so much as reducing your overall grip. You should strive to keep all 4 tires in the optimum temperature range as much as possible, over the full life of the tires.

Though it's not easy to say how to change the ARB. With the fixed tyre physics the (hopefully) clear answer would be to make the rear end stiffer, but with the current physics he's likely using a locked diff set where having a higher front ARB aids oversteer.

Quote from Forbin :

Why would you fiddle with the dampers if you changed the overall grip balance? Dampers are primarily for tuning transient response.

Change the ARB balance. You may wish to try changing the springs, but that will require damper changes as well.

In the beginning I was trying to adjust just a couple of corners by changing transient response, but in the end I didn't get the results I wanted, so that's why I decided to go for a global balance change.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Though it's not easy to say how to change the ARB. With the fixed tyre physics the (hopefully) clear answer would be to make the rear end stiffer, but with the current physics he's likely using a locked diff set where having a higher front ARB aids oversteer.

Interesting. Yes, I'm using a locked diff, but I thought that making the rear ARB stiffer would give me more oversteer, not the front one. I'll take that into consideration.

I'm going to try some things based on your advices and I'll see if they work or at least it gets a little better. Thank you guys

Quote from MaKaKaZo :

In the beginning I was trying to adjust just a couple of corners by changing transient response, but in the end I didn't get the results I wanted, so that's why I decided to go for a global balance change.



Interesting. Yes, I'm using a locked diff, but I thought that making the rear ARB stiffer would give me more oversteer, not the front one. I'll take that into consideration.

I'm going to try some things based on your advices and I'll see if they work or at least it gets a little better. Thank you guys

A stiff front ARB will tend to cause understeer. The exception to this is if you have a locked front diff in LFS. With some throttle applied mid-corner, the load will be transferred to the rear of the car, making it squat and lifting the inside front. Now the car's a tripod and there is zero resistance to chassis rotation from the differential. In fact, having the front outside wheel turned to the inside, with all of the engine's output going to it, helps rotate the car even more.

This is made possible because of the virtually limitless load the tires in LFS are able to cope with. More vertical load means the tire can exert more lateral force.

In real life, tires have a limit where more load overwhelms the tire and it is not capable of translating that greater load into greater force potential.

Sorry if I don't write in english, but I don't know the technical names of mechanical parts of a car in english.

Endurece barras estabilizadoras detrás, ablanda delante. Es el primer paso para conseguir lo que quieres sin tocar nada más del setup. Lo siguiente sería poner la convergencia trasera en negativo, pero hará más dificil controlar el culo, y luego empezaría a tocar el reparto de frenada, y por ultimo si quieres seguir afinando, ajustando la extensión y compresión de la amortiguación. Extensión dura detrás/Compresión blanda delante, hace que se levante un poco el culo en frenada y entre mejor en curva. Compresión dura detrás, extensión dura delante (en un delantera) hace que no levante el morro al acelerar y no subvire al salir de curva.

Quote from translate.google.com :

Rear stabilizer bars harden, soften the front. It is the first step to getting what you want without touching anything else in the setup. The following would be put back in negative convergence, but will become more difficult to control your ass, and then begin to play the distribution of braking, and finally if you want to continue refining, adjusting the rebound and compression damping. Extension behind hard / soft front compression makes rise a little ass in the better braking and cornering. Compression hard behind, hard extension before (in front) does not lift the nose to accelerate and not understeer at corner exit.

The Google translation seems to work well enough, if a little vulgar
(Personally, I prefer to keep my ass in control)

i have recently learned that sway bar is a magical tool

just reduce the front sway bar, and increase the rear and you will get a bit of oversteer back

As previously stated, it's not quite that simple in LFS when you're exploiting the properties of the tires with a locked diff by lifting the inside front wheel.

More rear ARB will make the car turn easier once you have the front inside wheel up, but it'll also be more difficult to do so and to hold it there. As soon as the inside front touches down, you'll get massive understeer as the diff resists the car's rotation.

thats why i then put a clutch or viscous lsd with a high locking and torque

That's a comprimise, then. I'm not sure that it's a particularly good one.

Thanks for all your replys guys. In the end a teammate did a couple adjustments and he nailed it, but anyway the race was a total disaster for me as they took me out in the second corner... I'm going to open a new thread about dampers and I hope I get as good feedback as in this thread.

please post a link, i am excelent with suspension tuning to make it just right