Quote from Shadowww :

Haven't you tried to run it on x64 OS?

I wonder if it's Win7 or Win7 x64.

I'm sorry I should have posted more info in my previous post. Yes, I'm running Windows Vista x64 and Windows 7 x64, and Ubuntu..not that that matters.

Same issues, however, in the last ten minutes I think I may have figured out something that may be causing this. EDIT This is likely due to virtually all vendors using vista drivers for Windows 7, they work, well, heh, I did it running the Win7 for a long time. Anyways just pointing out it will be a good 3 months at least before we see solid Windows 7 drivers, at least, drivers that matter, like Gpu drivers. But the OS's are so similar in many ways, I can't say for sure how much better gaming will be on 7, although I can give my word in all my benchmarks, 17 games, Windows 7 is averaging a little over 5% increase in frame rate. Yeah, lots of work.

These 4890's throttle down, when not in use, to 250mhz. Now, I've read in places that these cards can sometimes downclock during gameplay, and their favorite spot is 500mhz. Mine both run 950mhz(stock is 850mhz), but that shouldn't matter. Now, it's possible while I'm playing NFS Shift, my Gpu (It only uses one) may be downclocking to 500mhz at times, and this would certainly account for the issues, and, well, it would be a very fitting explanation.

I'm going to open GpuZ, right now, and run NFS Shift on several races, and log it, and see if at any time during the races my Gpu downclocks, maybe I'm onto something here.

EDIT: I'd also like to add, just because someone is using an ATI Gpu, doesn't make them a fan of AMD. I know many people, and at one point myself, that are/were fans of ATI back before AMD bought the Gpu giant. It's unfair and extremely presumptuous to call someone an AMD fanboy/fanboi, or simply a supporter of AMD, just because they own an ATI Gpu. This should be obvious to any person of any intellect.

Anyways I'm going to get to work on that GpuZ/NFS Shift benchmark right now, on my new system, and the old, specs are below. Lets see what happens!

Okay, I ran NFS Shift, on SPA, using the Ford GT against Audi's best, hardest settings, 6 slaps, smoked his ass! Nice, that Audi is a tough car to contend with.

Anyways, according to GpuZ, which is undeniably 100% accurate, it shows the clock speed, Gpu usage, everything, in real time, and shows a bar, kind of like the one used in windows performance monitor, anywyas it logs it, and is absolutely true and accurate because I test it with LFS, tab out, tab back it, and watch and it's perfect.

Results, Windows Vista 32 bit on the old rig, the 4890 did it's job perfectly, the Core clock never fell. Same results on the new rig, in both Vista 64 and Win7 64. So, it was a long shot, it had happened in some other game, and would have been a perfect explanation for these issues on the Radeon 4000 series cards on NFS Shift, but nope, the Gpu performed just as it should have, as did the intelligent software that controls the clock of the Gpu's Core. (Oh, for anyone that doesn't know, only the Core clock on these Radeons downlclocks when idle, not the memory or shader clocks. Btw, this was another reason I liked the 4890 over the GTX 275/285, not to mention price, what a joke. I'll deal with the occasional driver hickup with ATI, because these cards are absolute powerhouse cards and they're so damn cheap I don't know what Nvidia is gonna do..they'd better just make the GTX 275 dissapear, and slash the price on the 285, big time. I mean, the 5870 right now is averaging $50 cheaper than the GTX 285. Averaging several subvendors and websites. Who in their right mind would buy a Nvidia card right now? And I love Nvidia....WOW.
Am I confused, or has ATI really kicked Nvidia right in the nuts? Also, how long until the Nvidia 300 series, and will they support DX10.1/11??? Heh...wow am I glad I went ATI.

I'm sure Nvidia will be in a hurry to release their new cards, which may result in weaker cards if they rush the process. But I'm sure we'll be hearing about their products sometime before the holiday season. If not, then they are in trouble, as the ATI 5000 series cards are very good, and with the release of the dual-gpu Radeon 5970 only a week or two away Nvidia will be hard pressed to release something to compete with ATI.

I did some research last night and the 300 series will "have" to support DX11, and be damn good, and the price had better be right, or we're about to see a shift. Those who love Nvidia so much are gonna get sick of the ATI fella's getting double the frame rates at half the price, it's gonna pile on and pile on. Physx an Cuda are already proven to be amazing, I LOOOVVE IT, however, it's not enough. Performance first, because as we all know, in order to even enable physx in a game that supports it, you'll need a VERY high end Nvidia card, there's almost no point to it for mid-range to high range, only enthusiast. GTX 285, 295, SLI/Extra Nv Gpu dedi to physx is the only way to get realtime gameplay with physx enabled. So, the 300 series mid-range card will need to be at least as powerful as a GTX 285 or they may as well dump the physx idea entirely, more than 85% of Nvidia card owners can't take advantage because the Physx is so taxing on the Gpu.

Nvida is a big company and has the money and resources to accomplish they they need to, and they'd better because AMD is sitting real nice right now, right at the top, in performance, support....we'll have to wait and see.

Sorry, eh, I ramble on but that's just how I see it right now, Nvidia is gonna have to do something special, and they gotta let their cards downclock....another issue. I love the fact my Gpu's sit at 240mhz, 40*C, 40% fan speed. Nvidia is practically opposite.

I'm truly conflicted, I love Physx, I thought it was the next big thing, next to tessellation and ray tracing, but even better, but it's not practical. Nvidia, please, make some moves! And STOP paying off developers to not support DX10.1, this makes me sick to my stomach, and there's soo much proof... Uhg... I don't think I can truly be a fan of any of this anymore, just a smart consumer trying to get the best gaming experience, screw taking sides, it's never accomplished anything but blind obedience....which is ignorant. I'm done..

(And to think a GTX 285 is $420, and one of my 4890's at $179 with a small OC keeps up, and the 5870 is $50 cheaper, and smokes the 285...Nv in big trouble. Bye bye GTX 275 :shrug

Actually most PhysX users can't take advantage of it cause there's very few games which actually use it. And I don't think Nvidia is paying off developers to not use DX10.1, developers don't use it because Nvidia cards don't support it. They can't make a game which will run on only ATI cards, that would substantially limit their revenues. And it wouldn't be worth it to make two versions, as DX10.1 is a just a small update to DX10 which includes a few new instructions.

HD4890, Fresh install WinXPsp3. CCC_9.10
Still not happy with this card. Watching internet Flash video slows down to 1 FPS after about 30 mins. This did not happen with my old card.

Adaptive AA seems to destroy this card.
(Textures on LOW RES settings)

Adaptive AA OFF - 170.2 FPS

Adaptive AA-ON (Performance) - 51.0 FPS

Adaptive AA ON (Quality) - 21.7 FPS


So many other issues I am wishing now that I had spent double the money on an nVidia equivalent. I don't have time in my life to mess with my PC for two weeks to make something work. Maybe I am expecting too much.

Also is 67-69ºC normal?

Quote from JasonJ :

HD4890, Fresh install WinXPsp3. CCC_9.10
Still not happy with this card. Watching internet Flash video slows down to 1 FPS after about 30 mins. This did not happen with my old card.

Adaptive AA seems to destroy this card.
(Textures on LOW RES settings)

Adaptive AA OFF - 170.2 FPS

Adaptive AA-ON (Performance) - 51.0 FPS

Adaptive AA ON (Quality) - 21.7 FPS


So many other issues I am wishing now that I had spent double the money on an nVidia equivalent. I don't have time in my life to mess with my PC for two weeks to make something work. Maybe I am expecting too much.

Also is 67-69ºC normal?

Oh wow, I have constant 60 fps with max AA and max AF, and temp never rises over 60°C while playing LFS

Are you sure you cleaned all NVidia drivers before installing ATI card? There shouldn't be any drivers for devices you don't have in your system.

Quote from Shadowww :

Are you sure you cleaned all NVidia drivers before installing ATI card? There shouldn't be any drivers for devices you don't have in your system.

Reformatted a spare HDD so yeh, everything is new. Only installed winXP_SP3, dotNET_3.5, CCC_9.10, and LFS z25
No antivirus or nothing else to slow it down. LFS is fine if I don't use Adaptive AA, but yeh that's kinda ugly. Oh well, I'll put up with this and try nVidia again next upgrade.

Quote from JasonJ :

Reformatted a spare HDD so yeh, everything is new. Only installed winXP_SP3, dotNET_3.5, CCC_9.10, and LFS z25
No antivirus or nothing else to slow it down. LFS is fine if I don't use Adaptive AA, but yeh that's kinda ugly. Oh well, I'll put up with this and try nVidia again next upgrade.

Why don't you enable fixed anti-aliasing? 4x mode will improve image quality a lot.

The issues you are having are NOT graphics card related. 4890 or a high end nvidia card should both give 200-400 fps with all settings maxed out in lfs. You are blaming your graphics card while the graphics card is not causing your problems.

Quote from Bluebird B B :

4890 or a high end nvidia card should both give 200-400 fps with all settings maxed out in lfs.

1000 fps with Core i7 CPU

(I have seen screenshot somewhere).

Quote from Bluebird B B :

Why don't you enable fixed anti-aliasing? 4x mode will improve image quality a lot.

Those shots were at 8x AA. (max in LFS) Shots were saved as low res JPGs just to upload. I was showing performance not quality. I'm not sure what it is that made you think I was using any other type of AA. I've never heard of fixed Anti-Aliasing. Or do you mean just straight 8x AA? Well I am using that anyway but the reason I was pointing out Adaptive AA is because transparencies looks pretty bad, I mean the trees and grass from a distance goes noticeably low res from a distance which looks pretty crappy. Adaptive AA fixes that ugly look.
Adaptive Anti-Aliasing - for what I can tell is used to fix the AA on transparancy textures and is known as Anti-Aliasing - Transparancy in nVidia's driver setup.

Quote from Bluebird B B :

The issues you are having are NOT graphics card related. 4890 or a high end nvidia card should both give 200-400 fps with all settings maxed out in lfs. You are blaming your graphics card while the graphics card is not causing your problems.

What do you suggest the issue is? The frame rate drops down to 40FPS going up to the Cromo bridge on BL1.

(my nVidia 9600GT wasn't even that bad, with the same MAX settings) It does get up to 180 FPS on the back straight on my own so it is somewhat working. It's been this bad since I installed this card. Getting to the point of putting back the 9600GT and throwing it out.


Something weird now. Really weird infact.
Adaptive AA ON (quality) - 181.8 FPS

So it is apparently working correctly now, but for what reason I do not know, been messing around for 2 weeks and now it just decides to work on it's own.

Actually no. Just rebooted PC and it's back at 21 FPS.

The only way to get 170 FPS again is turn off AA altogether, WHICH I MIGHT ADD also happens at random when you use CCC to override AA settings. The AA setting you set in CCC just get ignored by the games at random. This is really pissing me off. Paid a lot of money for one huge headache. Actually headache is an understatement. :banghead: I'm am looking at prices of new nVidia cards atm.

Quote from JasonJ :

Those shots were at 8x AA. (max in LFS) Shots were saved as low res JPGs just to upload. I was showing performance not quality. I'm not sure what it is that made you think I was using any other type of AA. I've never heard of fixed Anti-Aliasing. Or do you mean just straight 8x AA? Well I am using that anyway but the reason I was pointing out Adaptive AA is because transparencies looks pretty bad, I mean the trees and grass from a distance goes noticeably low res from a distance which looks pretty crappy. Adaptive AA fixes that ugly look.
Adaptive Anti-Aliasing - for what I can tell is used to fix the AA on transparancy textures and is known as Anti-Aliasing - Transparancy in nVidia's driver setup.

Little test with "limit fps = off"
I use fixed aa at 4x @1920x1200and do not have any of your described problems. It takes a full grid of drivers to get the fps down to 50fps(minimal value) at south city AND external view. Difference in image quality between 4x anti-aliasing and 8x is minimal. Also it looks like fps is cpu limited(eh core limited), not graphics card, because going from 0x anti-aliasing and 0x texture filtering to maximum values(8x and 16) makes no difference in fps. it did notice turning texture filtering down does have a very negative impact on image quality.

adative AA, i dont know what it does exactly, i thought it was to reduce AA in areas where it is not needed to gain performance. With a ati 4890 card i don't see any use for that in lfs. Your other point, ugly trees in the distance?? Are you using a 40 inch monitor? that is an optimization from lfs, lowering details. I did try to see ugly trees in the distance on my own system.. it looks normal to me It might be a problem you enable adative anti aliasing, but in lfs it is configured to be fixed. Try disabeling adaptive anti aliasing and for other the settings:"let application decide" in CCC.

note: your screenshots are way too small to see anything at all.
Also 67-69 celcius is normal for graphics cards You can improve this by setting a fixed fan speed. On my system 37-40% fan-speed is needed to get the temperature down by about 10 degrees. But it makes more noise so i have it set back to auto-mode.

So my opinion stays: you blame the hardware for a problem which is not hardware related Well at least not the graphics card OR the graphics card is broken, in which case you can get it back to the shop and have it repaired under warranty. However it is very unlikely a malfunctioning graphics cards gives the behavior you are describing.

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

Actually most PhysX users can't take advantage of it cause there's very few games which actually use it. And I don't think Nvidia is paying off developers to not use DX10.1, developers don't use it because Nvidia cards don't support it. They can't make a game which will run on only ATI cards, that would substantially limit their revenues. And it wouldn't be worth it to make two versions, as DX10.1 is a just a small update to DX10 which includes a few new instructions.

There is proof that Nvidia payed off the devs of Assassins Creed to "not" include a patch to support DX10.1, because ATI users would have seen huge performance increases.

As for the other argument, look at Stalker - Clear Sky. You can run the game in DX8, DX9, DX10, and 10.1. If you have a newer ATI card there's an option to "Use DX10.1" and the performance increase is awesome. If GSC Game World can accomplish this, "any" developer can.

In no way arguing here, but use google there's proof of Nvidia's payoffs.

_______

As for the few posts after yours, doesn't sound like an ATI issue, I have no such problems with my ATI cards, on two different rigs. My main rig, specs in sig, and my second, with just one of the 4890's.

Quote from Bluebird B B :

Are you using a 40 inch monitor?

Actually yes, check my sig.

I appreciate your details and info. For me I don't think it's CPU limited because I get more FPS turing off AA/AF, I'll post some more comparisons a bit later when I got some more time.

The screen shots are small yes, but they are also hyperlinks. All the shots were done at 8xAA, 16xAF set by LFS. (Let Application decide set in CCC)

Thanks for the info on temps, I thought to turn on the fan to manual, but didn't want to shorten it's lifespan having it run flat out all the time. As long as 69°C is fine then no worries.

Quote from JasonJ :

Actually yes, check my sig.

I appreciate your details and info. For me I don't think it's CPU limited because I get more FPS turing off AA/AF, I'll post some more comparisons a bit later when I got some more time.

The screen shots are small yes, but they are also hyperlinks. All the shots were done at 8xAA, 16xAF set by LFS. (Let Application decide set in CCC)

Thanks for the info on temps, I thought to turn on the fan to manual, but didn't want to shorten it's lifespan having it run flat out all the time. As long as 69°C is fine then no worries.

Try using CCC AA/AF. I can set max with edge detect and max af with LFS and get 100-150 FPS. Adaptive AA doesn't change anything for me on my 4870 *shrug*

Try using older drivers?

Quote from JasonJ :

Actually yes, check my sig.

I appreciate your details and info. For me I don't think it's CPU limited because I get more FPS turing off AA/AF, I'll post some more comparisons a bit later when I got some more time.

The screen shots are small yes, but they are also hyperlinks. All the shots were done at 8xAA, 16xAF set by LFS. (Let Application decide set in CCC)

Thanks for the info on temps, I thought to turn on the fan to manual, but didn't want to shorten it's lifespan having it run flat out all the time. As long as 69°C is fine then no worries.

The hyprlinks link to screenshots in 150x85 pixels, that is eh small...

it going to need some serious trouble shooting, there is not a direct good explanation why you get such poor performance on your system.
Small list to try to take a look at:
- weird power-management
- overheating cpu
- firmware version motherboard
- virus/spyware
- anti-virus/anti spyware
- drivers chipset, soundcard, networkinterface
- accidentally onboard graphics card enabled("hybride mode")
- check event viewer(eventvwr) windows
- directx version
- Install vista/7 64 bits If you have a license for it

ps: My 26 inch monitor looks really small now

The hyperlinks should take you to a 1920x1080 screenshot on imageshack. Try clicking the thumbnails, here's one of them: http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/5282/cromo.jpg
WTF, it's now a AVON bridge.. haha

Thanks for all the tips.
- weird power-management
Antec 500W ~12 months old
dedicated 6pin rail connector and using another separate rail for the other 6 pin GPU power.
- overheating cpu
39 degrees idle, e8400 runs so cool i love it.
- firmware version motherboard
original not flashed *
- virus/spyware
- anti-virus/anti spyware
fresh winXP install (new)
- drivers chipset, soundcard, networkinterface
granted, i could try later drivers for Mainboard *
- accidentally onboard graphics card enabled("hybride mode")
no onboard GPU (Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3R)
- check event viewer(eventvwr) windows
no application problems, nothing else is installed except Logitech profiler for G25
- directx version
9.0c(4.09.0000.0904) included in WinSP2 disk, SP3 installed
- Install vista/7 64 bits If you have a license for it
I have win7 in the mail to test with soon *

*Yes a couple things to try. Thanks. But I sorta have my doubts. The strange thing is when I use CCC to make changes to AA and AF a lot of the time, LFS just ignores what I put into CCC. It works the first time i go to full screen, but if I use Shift-F4 to window out and go back to full screen, the AA settings from CCC are just lost and LFS shows up looking with 0xAA and yes, it is set to forced 8x in CCC. So I will try MijnWraak's suggestion and try older drivers.




For those asking what Adaptive AA is here is a comparison, the Adaptive AA is applied to the bottom image.

I got addicted to Transparency Supersampling on the old n9600GT. Without it things like grass and trees in the distance look like cardboard cutouts.

Look, I'll stop ruining this thread with my crap. Thanks for all the help and advice. I got some more things to try and report back if I get any success.

Well. When I had games on my pc (deleted all to get on with uni work)

I only have a single 3.6ghz cpu with a 9500gt (512mb version) 2gb ram, xp pro and I get between 70 - 90 fps running 1280x1024 with full aa and I think most stuff on max. (never bothered looking much)

Live For Speed does not use much resource.

You sure nothing is broken in your machine. This sounds quite odd based on your spec.

Good luck though. Nothing worse than something that does not seem to work properly out the box. U'll prob find it's something incredibly simple you missed or did wrong.

Quote from JasonJ :

The hyperlinks should take you to a 1920x1080 screenshot on imageshack. Try clicking the thumbnails, here's one of them: http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/5282/cromo.jpg
WTF, it's now a AVON bridge.. haha

Thanks for all the tips.
- weird power-management
Antec 500W ~12 months old
dedicated 6pin rail connector and using another separate rail for the other 6 pin GPU power.
- overheating cpu
39 degrees idle, e8400 runs so cool i love it.
- firmware version motherboard
original not flashed *
- virus/spyware
- anti-virus/anti spyware
fresh winXP install (new)
- drivers chipset, soundcard, networkinterface
granted, i could try later drivers for Mainboard *
- accidentally onboard graphics card enabled("hybride mode")
no onboard GPU (Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3R)
- check event viewer(eventvwr) windows
no application problems, nothing else is installed except Logitech profiler for G25
- directx version
9.0c(4.09.0000.0904) included in WinSP2 disk, SP3 installed
- Install vista/7 64 bits If you have a license for it
I have win7 in the mail to test with soon *

*Yes a couple things to try. Thanks. But I sorta have my doubts. The strange thing is when I use CCC to make changes to AA and AF a lot of the time, LFS just ignores what I put into CCC. It works the first time i go to full screen, but if I use Shift-F4 to window out and go back to full screen, the AA settings from CCC are just lost and LFS shows up looking with 0xAA and yes, it is set to forced 8x in CCC. So I will try MijnWraak's suggestion and try older drivers.




For those asking what Adaptive AA is here is a comparison, the Adaptive AA is applied to the bottom image.

I got addicted to Transparency Supersampling on the old n9600GT. Without it things like grass and trees in the distance look like cardboard cutouts.

Look, I'll stop ruining this thread with my crap. Thanks for all the help and advice. I got some more things to try and report back if I get any success.

Your powersupply has nothing today with powermanagement. I mean the powermangament savings in bios and what windows is doing and what is configured in windows. If something goes wrong, you might get weird performance.
note: 500watt powersupply is not much for your system configuration.

Its crucial to update your drivers of your chipset and check if a newer firmware for your motherboard will give fixes/improvements. If not, do not flash your motherboard, since flashing a bios is always relatively risky operation.

ps: your ima

9800GTX is better,faster.....
apart for that, processing unit must be faster or you can say fastest
i was having a old gigabyte motherboard, now i have one of the fastest processor and mother. the processing is 80 percent faster than ever!!!

for best performance you need to have the following config.....
intel core i7 extreme edition/3.33GHz/1600 FSB/12mb l2 cache/
...ht,tb,cm,xd,em64t.........capable
intel dx58so extreme motherboard with HT tec. & TB tec. enabled
16gb ddr3 sd ram

Why on earth are you grave digging; damn you!

Quote from aniket.pawar08ec24 :

9800GTX is better,faster.....
apart for that, processing unit must be faster or you can say fastest
i was having a old gigabyte motherboard, now i have one of the fastest processor and mother. the processing is 80 percent faster than ever!!!

for best performance you need to have the following config.....
intel core i7 extreme edition/3.33GHz/1600 FSB/12mb l2 cache/
...ht,tb,cm,xd,em64t.........capable
intel dx58so extreme motherboard with HT tec. & TB tec. enabled
16gb ddr3 sd ram

Had to dig some more / or bump.

So basically u dude need to lower ur ego. Nobody was asking what system u got and im pretty sure its not "a must have config". And 16gb of ram? Dude please ...

Also, if u can afford this stuff. Buy S2 ... just sayn.