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Your attack on the other hand is quite easy to see through. You dont like me because I think Schumacher is a cheating little schmuk

Show me one tiny little bit where I have said anything that makes you think so. Oh wait. You won't be able to because I never have. I dont give a shit about what you think about MSC.

Webber. Hes an honest guy and nearly always does a solid race and id love to see him in a faster car.

Alonso is a good driver, but to be honest i dont think he is that brilliant a driver, hes just good when hes under pressure.

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What about Senna and Prost ?

We can talk about drivers no longer in F1 if you want... ?

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Show me one tiny little bit where I have said anything that makes you think so [attack on me - Becky]. Oh wait. You won't be able to because I never have. I dont give a shit about what you think about MSC.

..

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Right. I guess you dont drive slower when your tires are cold fresh out of the pits in LFS than you do with them at optimum temp, do you? God should have given you a brain. Try to use it at times.

Sarcasm followed by insult, i'd say that constitutes an attack dont you?

Ever since I said Michael Schumacher just might not be the most godly adonis to have ever walked the Earth you've been at it, and as i've said so many times, we're both speaking from the point of view of our passion but you seem to think that my passion for the sport is worth less and that i'm ripe for insulting because I have a different set of sporting prejudices to you.

Maybe if I grew my chin and wore red trousers you'd like me... !

This is one of the best reads I ever had. I thought I was an F1 enthusiast, but bloody nora.. I know diddly!

For the record, I haven't seen anything Becky's posted that I fundamentally disagree with. Some of it I didn't know, some of it I had a similar "sense" of. I can only talk "sense" in the subjective, gut feeling sense. As you know, I rarely talk sense otherwise

Whichever way you cut it, to suggest that Becky doesn't know anything about F1 is just pants, and also way too personally directed!

I'll stay quiet now, and learn some more

@becky:

i can asure you that hoellsen is not a schumacher fanboy or that you have hurt his national pride (you won't find many germans you can hurt that way,anyway) .

the problem is, that hoellsen knows motorsport and likes to rely on true facts .

Whilst I haven't always agreed with Schumi's on track habits, and I agree he's not always so ood under pressure, and makes mistakes (usually in practice or when he's miles ahead), I still have a lot of respect for him as he was (and is in my opinion) the best driver overall ever. Senna might have been better in his 'zone', and Prost was much more calculating and smoother, but none, even Fangio, has come as close to Schumi at perfection - bringing a whole team together, motivating people, representing F1, not being too cocky when he wins, accepting defeat fairly well etc. No, he's not perfect, and some of the flaws are quite big, but he's not going to be beaten soon.

Alonso I used to like a bit, but he's become to arrogant recently, which is odd having just discussed Schumi.

Kimi is cool - ice cool in fact. He just needs to temper himself to avoid overdriving at times.

Button - never gonna win a World Championship I know, but he's more than capable of wins given the right equipment. I don't think he's going to make sure he gets the right equipment though, and in that respect he's no Senna, Prost or Schumi.

Barrichello - nice guy, quite quick, good racer, but lacks something. He's up there with Button as best of the rest imo, but Button is better.

Montoya - every sport needs someone to laugh at.

Couthlard - an average driver (in terms of F1 drivers), and I've felt he deserves superlatives.

Massa - just a cheap filler to cover the Kimi/Schumi/Rossi plans.

Fisi - awesome driver in terms of outright speed, but Alonso has really shown him the way home, and has devalued him big time. Hope he stays around though as he's a great character in a faceless word. Keep up the swearing Fisi!!

At the end of the day they are opinions, and I cling to the fact that F1 remains, in terms of supporters, a gentlemans sport. No fights afterwards, and we (the fans) have the ability to discuss things in a composed way. Footballers (I live with 5 kickball fans) just shout at each other and take every opportunity to put down the others players/teams.

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Ever since I said Michael Schumacher just might not be the most godly adonis to have ever walked the Earth you've been at it

Read my posts again in this thread. I have not once commented on your opinion on MSC until you suggested I would be attacking your opinion because you disliked MSC. That is simply not true. I reacted to your opinion about JPM and KR at first and then simply made a little fun of the rest, which, agreed, includes the MSC part. However, that was the least bit of it and it was included in a generelization and not specially picked out. I didn't do so for a reason: I didn't even want to get into it, especially not with an Englishman. Simply because I do know that English and German f1 followers have different points of view on the Adelaide 94 incident. I could have picked out any other opinion of yours in your first post in this thread simply because they all lack proper thinking and analysis.

On the Adelaide 94 topic, I'd suggest reading the Atlas F1 Court btw which is the most unbiased discussion you can get on it.

Gotta be DC for me - to the best of my knowledge he's won the second most number of races on the grid atm. He's had his golden days, and sadly he will never win the title, but he's a fantastic driver to watch and, when the car is with him, I'm sure he'll do some damage later on this year! Still watching F1, but I have to say I've nearly stopped... just fed up of processions... watch the GP2 fantastic action throughout!!

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the problem is, that hoellsen knows motorsport and likes to rely on true facts

Ah yes the ultimate put down, not actually rooted in fact itself though is it? Because you see it's not a black and white world. There's a quote here I would like to bring in a slightly metaphorical way from a James Bond film, "One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.". Take the Adelaide incident, it has been suggested I read an "independant" verdict of it, why? I saw the accident with my own eyes I dont need somebody to tell me what happened in their opinion.

You can scream until your blue in the face, but I saw Schumacher go off a track, hit a wall, and then launch himself back at the track and in an interesting irony ( http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=8107 ) collect a car who quite rightly was passing the stricken car which just so happened would result in him winning a championship.

Just take a look at it. It's worth it. We all saw it at one time or another and we all got our biased opinion about it. So at times it is quite useful to read other opinions. That might lead to having a different thought about it. No need to change your opinion, just overthink it.

I'm looking forward to Monaco, not dwelling on 1997! It's one thing to reference it in a thread like this and have a brief discussion about point of view, but quite another to go reading through reems of opinionated evidence.

You sound like an animal rights activist trying to give me one of their brochures, do I have to give it back quickly too because they're in such high demand ?

About Schumacher... yeah, I don't think he's the greatest either. Let's just have a look against the drivers he's had to fight:

·Mika Hakkinen, clearly the best of the rest so far.
·Jacques Villeneuve, Damon Hill. Nothing to write home about, unless they had a dominant car.
·Fernando Alonso... seems to be pretty good. He won't be a one-off, that's for sure.
·Raikkonen, Montoya, Coulthard, Berger, Alesi (well, against the hype of Alesi... lol illepall), and a bunch of one-offs who won some races but not WDC, or not yet at least.

Now let's check the late 80s, early 90s. Who did you have to race against if you were, say, Ayrton Senna?

·Alain Prost... Oh dear.
·Nigel Mansell. Only won the WDC with a dominant car, but the man had balls the size of NYC.
·Nelson Piquet. Three times WDC, very agressive driving and a very controversial guy.
·Ricardo Patrese, and a bunch of others who usually snatched some points, wins and whatnot here and there.

Senna was never as spoiled on his team as Schumacher has been in Ferrari, either.

Question for Germans... do you see Rosberg as a German or half-German? Here in Finland Rosberg is of course 2nd most interesting driver (after Kimi) but there are lots of people complaining "don't support him, he's German". Despite the fact that he drives under German flag I see him as a half-Finn. He has Finnish blood and without Keke he wouldn't be a F1 driver right now.

Interesting question Deggis.

He speaks 5 lanuages, but not Finnish !
And without Keke, he wouldnt be........anything !

If Finland is anything like the UK, then he'll be a foreigner, until he starts winning, then he'll be a national hero, and have little blue plaque's put up all over the place in his honour. (if only to confirm that at some stage of his life he did at least visit the country) (unlike the patron saint of England, St George)

I'm not German.. but I'll reply anyway As long as Rosberg does speak Finnish and say he's Finnish, drive under a Finnish flag and generally promote Finland he ain't Finnish win or no win.

SCOTT SPEEED!!! Ur American root for Americans Also u said u got guys who had scored points because u wanta decent driver. F1 is mostly the car and the team all the drivers are awsome. Team Principal, Franz Tost "As for Speed, although he is very young and extremely inexperienced, so far he has not made any mistakes. His performance has improved from race to race. He is a highly skilled driver with an extensive level of natural speed and all of us in the team are surprised at how well he is doing his job in this new environment of Formula 1. That was especially true in Barcelona, where he did an excellent job at the start and in the first stint, probably his best race performance so far. He was really fast, overtaking Rosberg, but in the end he was sidelined with technical problems." Scott speed will be around at least another year to prove what he can do. BTW thats a quote from my str newsletter

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Here in Finland Rosberg is of course 2nd most interesting driver (after Kimi) but there are lots of people complaining "don't support him, he's German".

Is that really important? Can you only like people that are of the same nationality as you are? I mean, I understand supporting "your team" in team sports as soccer. But in a sport where no such thing as a national competition exists (apart from the A1GP which is...well, just another racing series), where is the need for that?

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You sound like an animal rights activist trying to give me one of their brochures, do I have to give it back quickly too because they're in such high demand ?

Not quite. I just don't like being supposed to have an opinion and being supposed to have done something which I have neither. And I do take the freedom to speak up against this.

But I didn't mention the war? (ducks), anyway I think of Rosberg as German because that's what he identifies himself as, but he's not a German in the same sense that Schumacher is - you can tell from the interviews he has done so far that he doesn't really do stereotypes, and that's a good thing. We can do with a few less stereotypes in the world.

soooooo....., how is schumacher a typical german?

Because Michael Schumacher propagates every stereotypical-Engish view of a stereotypical-German. If that offends you (and it may) then please take it in the context of my preceeding post.

And remember I didn't start it, you did ... You invaded Poland ...

Oh, when saying Schumacher's a typical german you're propably refering to him singlehandedly conquering Poland back in '96, don't you?

Well, jokes aside, I like to hear about german stereotypes, so bring 'em on.

Vain

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conquering

Two options:

One) It wasn't exactly conquering now was it

Two)

Quote from Becky Rose :

Because Michael Schumacher propagates every stereotypical-Engish view of a stereotypical-German. If that offends you (and it may) then please take it in the context of my preceeding post.

And remember I didn't start it, you did ... You invaded Poland ...

nono, it didn't offend me .

like vain, i'd like to hear about it. you know, i am not used to the stereotypical-English view of stereotypical-germans. and i really would like to hear, why schumacher is a typical one.

p.s.:
the wembley goal wasn't in .....and.....you invaded iraq!

Yah, sorry about that hole Iraq mess. I feel a bit like an Austrian.

Who to barrack for in F1? Whoever you want to support the most.

Personally I have a soft spot for Webber (gogo nationalism!), Raikkonen, Montoya, and Schumi.