Hi ,

i havent been driving the GTi that much (i drive RWD's), till recently.. so after a quick try ,i noticed that the Gti has some weired behavor for a FWD car..it's kinda like pretty overteery no matter what the settings is , an example :

if you grab some supposidely good GTi setups and analyse their suspension setting , you'll find out they're set as a RWD car..to counter the overteer as it's usualy done on RWD's..

so , this is it , i wanted to know if you noticed the same thing about the GTi...

oversteer in a FWD car is not wierd behavior. For the few FWD cars I've driven all my life, it is something that really happens. It mostly happens when under braking from moderate or high-speeds and your steering becomes loose while in a corner. Most in corners it can happen if you are just not smooth enough. Trust me, it does happen.

As for the GTi having some constant oversteer, it is mostly due in part of the setups. Most fast setups, some drivers use the oversteer as an advantage, so they raise the rear tire pressures allowing a slight bit more stop speed, but ALSO to alleviate the minor understeer it would get if the rear was actually grippier.

All I can say is, you should try and do the following to get rid of rear oversteer in a FWD by:

-Lowering rear tire pressures, or allowing them to heat up a bit

-Softening rear suspension sometimes makes the handling better, but it can create some washy feeling and not be beneficial to handling. So your best idea is to soften the front like a real FWD car's suspension is.

-Work a bit on the differential settings, usually under braking, some differential settings are better than others.

-Brakes should be more forward, but not too much. Basically just work on your braking technique, and be super smooth.

FWD cars by nature suffer from lift off oversteer with a very light rear

alright , thx for your replies dudes.. how about the ARB settings on the GTi ? a while ago , we used to find some setups with soft front ARB and stiff rear ARB, i guess that's the logical way to set a FWD in general...but now , all setups have very stiff front ARB , is this normal on a FWD ?

illepallit would be better to stop talking again and agin about the same bugs !!!
Yes FWD are completly unrealistic now, both for handling and setupping. Soft rear antiroll bar generate oversteer on throttle, and the locked diff is the only way to have something that can be driven with not too much crazy behavior of the engine when you are not in a straight line and full accelerating...

Quote from Flotch :

Soft rear antiroll bar generate oversteer on throttle

Please, show me power oversteer in a FWD car with a neutral setup. I can't get it to happen in LFS...

Quote from Bob Smith :

Please, show me power oversteer in a FWD car with a neutral setup. I can't get it to happen in LFS...

what is a neutral setup??

oversteer when accelerating : just watch some of my replay on SO with the ufgtr :
http://www.lfsworld.net/get_spr.php?file=3922
http://www.lfsworld.net/get_spr.php?file=3927
I guarantee you that I fought hard with the wheel to stay on the road

Quote from Flotch :

illepallit would be better to stop talking again and agin about the same bugs !!!
Yes FWD are completly unrealistic now, both for handling and setupping. Soft rear antiroll bar generate oversteer on throttle, and the locked diff is the only way to have something that can be driven with not too much crazy behavior of the engine when you are not in a straight line and full accelerating...

first off, i didnt know that people have been mentioning this point before..although, i made a thread from the way i see it and was hoping to get some proper answers to my "specific" query..furthermore, is my thread bothering you that much ? what's your problem anyway ? lose the attitude dude and get a life !

Quote from Flotch :

...Soft rear antiroll bar generate oversteer on throttle...

I think he's trying to say that the oposite happens with FWD, I know that Dodge put a stiffer ARB in my SRT-4 to decrease understeer with the ACR package.

Quote from Flotch :

what is a neutral setup??

One that neither understeers nor oversteers (when the clutch is in at least), so that effect engine braking/throttle can be observed accurately.

I'll attach some neutral sets over the weekend.

Quote from Bob Smith :

One that neither understeers nor oversteers (when the clutch is in at least), so that effect engine braking/throttle can be observed accurately.

I'll attach some neutral sets over the weekend.

by the way bob , do you have some new setups that'd work with the new tire physics ? i'd really appriciate if you can drop me some of the XTT setups here.. thx in advance dude..

Quote from silent_wind :

by the way bob , do you have some new setups that'd work with the new tire physics ? i'd really appriciate if you can drop me some of the XTT setups here.. thx in advance dude..

I've been racing the GTT, can't quite get it sweet, it either understeers a tad or low angle drifts around the corners. Still fun though. Until the rear tyres melt

Practise will tame the beast.

Quote from Bob Smith :

I've been racing the GTT, can't quite get it sweet, it either understeers a tad or low angle drifts around the corners. Still fun though. Until the rear tyres melt

Practise will tame the beast.

so that means you dont wanna share it anyway ? it can't be worse than mine i guess..but if you dont wanna give your setup, i'd understand... i'd try to understand actually

Quote from Flotch :

Yes FWD are completly unrealistic now, both for handling and setupping. Soft rear antiroll bar generate oversteer on throttle, and the locked diff is the only way to have something that can be driven with not too much crazy behavior of the engine when you are not in a straight line and full accelerating...

Don't act like it "impossible" IRL for a FWD to oversteer just because you're on the throttle. Obviously it happens for totally different reasons and it's not even the same phenomenon really, but it still can happen sometimes. All it really takes is less grip at the rear than at the front, and that's not too hard to acheive, even in a fwd under throttle.

What "crazy behaviour of the engine" are you referring too? Winding out a bit when the inside wheel spins up due to little weight on it? That happens IRL too! Of course a locked diff alleviates that

I don't mind criticism of LFS, I even dish it out on occasion! But to say the FWD dynamics are "completely unrealistic" is absolute rubbish to anyone with some intuition of physics.

The only thing I find to be a problem for me is the massive oversteer when you are letting off the brakes going into a corner. The rear just snaps around. I find this behavior difficult to drive with and I am not sure how to cure it. I think some drivers use this behavior to their advantage.
Even the Race_S set has this "feature".

Quote from Hallen :

The only thing I find to be a problem for me is the massive oversteer when you are letting off the brakes going into a corner. The rear just snaps around. I find this behavior difficult to drive with and I am not sure how to cure it. I think some drivers use this behavior to their advantage.
Even the Race_S set has this "feature".

When letting OFF the brakes? Are you sure that it's letting off the brakes that initiating the oversteer or are you fighting the car before that? Is this under trailbraking? Or strictly pre-entry - then you lose the car on entry having already let off the brakes?

Sorry for OT, but, I also want to hear a happy tale

LOL, more like Tales from the Crypt

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

When letting OFF the brakes? Are you sure that it's letting off the brakes that initiating the oversteer or are you fighting the car before that? Is this under trailbraking? Or strictly pre-entry - then you lose the car on entry having already let off the brakes?

It happens to me frequently, mostly when trail braking, braking a little for a corner isn't a problem, it's when I come off the brakes the tail steps out immediately.

a happy tale is always welcomed here.

Quote from Flotch :

oversteer when accelerating : just watch some of my replay on SO with the ufgtr :
http://www.lfsworld.net/get_spr.php?file=3922
http://www.lfsworld.net/get_spr.php?file=3927
I guarantee you that I fought hard with the wheel to stay on the road

i dont see anything particularly fishy there ... actually its pretty much what id expect from throwing an fwd into a bumpy corner that bites a lot in the front and has very little grip on the rear
looks like perfectly normal ass dragging to me

LOL, I Guess FWDs drag their asses both literally AND figuritively....

Can't stop laughing at that term....

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

It happens to me frequently, mostly when trail braking, braking a little for a corner isn't a problem, it's when I come off the brakes the tail steps out immediately.

Yes, I remember having this problem with some of the road cars a while ago. It seems that this is because in LFS you can induce understeer by trail braking if the slip ratio gets high while braking. I don't know how realistic this is though.

Try setting the brake balance further back.

Quote from J.B. :

It seems that this is because in LFS you can induce understeer by trail braking if the slip ratio gets high while braking.

hmmm interesting interpretation

Quote :

I don't know how realistic this is though.

sounds realistic to me ... effect of going beyond the traction circle

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

It happens to me frequently, mostly when trail braking, braking a little for a corner isn't a problem, it's when I come off the brakes the tail steps out immediately.

Yep, that is the situation. I have heard of an explanation for the physics of the behavior, but I don't have it happen on RWD cars and I have driven some sets that reduce the tendency. I was hoping somebody would have an idea. I have already tried moving the brake bias back further to the rear, I have it a 77% right now (GTi), but it has not helping much, if any.