I think the novelty has worn off. There are too many ss series' vying for our attention and spending a lot of money, when really all the general public care about in the slightest is F1. Sponsors can be persuaded that it's worth a punt on a new and upcoming championship like A1GP, for as long as it's new, but unless it makes a massive impact it just won't last for long, and these things just don't.

Unless a series comes along in the off-season which is capable of attracting F1 drivers away from their mountain mansions (not that their contracts could ever allow it) or that every big name driver that can't do F1 wants to do more than anything else in the world, the general population that make up an audience aren't going to give a hoot.

I'm afraid nice looking cars, and a gimmick (Nations, Football teams) aren't enough when the drivers are non-entities, the results non-newsworthy and the public non-interested.

Someone needs to offer some insanely large prize money, or anything that comes along (with all the best intentions), will just fade away.

What about non-SS series sinbad?

Quote from lizardfolk :

Because that ladder is pretty euro centric. It's not exclusive or discriminatory by any means, but that doesnt mean it's not euro centric. Blame it on upbringing, motorsport culture, or just exclusive talent (if you want to be racists). It doesn't change it's current state.

+1

The path to F1 is almost impossible for anyone born outside of Europe or the Americas, no matter how talented you are. Japan was the only exception until the recent withdrawal of both manufacturers.

Thankfully there is still rally, touring cars, and other categories.

Quote from samjh :

+1

The path to F1 is almost impossible for anyone born outside of Europe or the Americas, no matter how talented you are. Japan was the only exception until the recent withdrawal of both manufacturers.

Thankfully there is still rally, touring cars, and other categories.

No. The path to F1 is almost impossible for anyone who doesn't climb the ladder in Europe. You can be born where you like, but if you want to be in F1 get your arse over the Europe (and, ideally, England) as soon as you possibly can. Otherwise you just make life 10000% harder for yourself.

Quote from tristancliffe :

No. The path to F1 is almost impossible for anyone who doesn't climb the ladder in Europe. You can be born where you like, but if you want to be in F1 get your arse over the Europe (and, ideally, England) as soon as you possibly can. Otherwise you just make life 10000% harder for yourself.

Actually, a couple of IndyCar drivers got tests in F1 (Dan Wheldon/Ryan Briscoe). Although none of them (since the start of the IndyCar in 1996) have actually driven in F1.

CART (ChampCar) was a different story as quite a few of them did get into F1 (only none of them did well except JV).

So yeah, I'd say America has a shot. Only if you are climbing the American Open wheel ladder you better be pleased with IndyCar as the top cause F1 from there is pretty much a miracle (which Briscoe and Rahal almost got). On another note, USF1 was suppose to sign Graham Rahal to make him the first IndyCar driver to make the switch to F1...only they decided to go with a pay driver in Argentinean touring car.

But of course American is hardly the idea place unless you're going for ALMS or NASCAR. Everywhere else besides Europe is pretty much touring car, GT and or rally (V8 Supercar and Super GT WOOT!!!!).

right from the start i felt the ferrari engine / car business was a mistake purely on cost (both to purchase and because of the complexities to run). what really seemed obvious to me though was that A1 and superleague should have talked to each other, one is (was?) a winter series and one a shortish summer series, it doesn't take a genius to work out that they could have used the same cars for both to spread costs. add in the fact that by promoting the two together they could have offered tv companies an all year round race program comprising two series both of which concentrated on the teams rather than the drivers and they may just have been viable.

Quote from lizardfolk :

Actually, a couple of IndyCar drivers got tests in F1 (Dan Wheldon/Ryan Briscoe). Although none of them (since the start of the IndyCar in 1996) have actually driven in F1.

CART (ChampCar) was a different story as quite a few of them did get into F1 (only none of them did well except JV).

So yeah, I'd say America has a shot. Only if you are climbing the American Open wheel ladder you better be pleased with IndyCar as the top cause F1 from there is pretty much a miracle (which Briscoe and Rahal almost got). On another note, USF1 was suppose to sign Graham Rahal to make him the first IndyCar driver to make the switch to F1...only they decided to go with a pay driver in Argentinean touring car.

But of course American is hardly the idea place unless you're going for ALMS or NASCAR. Everywhere else besides Europe is pretty much touring car, GT and or rally (V8 Supercar and Super GT WOOT!!!!).

Actually? What do you mean actually? Did you read me post? I didn't say it was totally impossible to get to F1 outside of Europe, or that nobody will ever find an example of someone who has (or nearly has).

I said it's vastly more difficult - as proven by the two or three people you mentioned who didn't actually make it to F1. These days you can get an F1 test just be being a best looking in F3 or having the whitest smile in Superleague. Getting to F1 properly is rather more difficult.

Quote from lizardfolk :

What about non-SS series sinbad?

I think much of the same applies, the big ones all have some level of manufacturer backing, which helps. Though IMO they each do well (although "well" is a relative term) because they're in their own respective niche, and have no delusions that they're going to compete with F1 in any way.

You'd be brave to come along and try to set up an "International Touring Car Series of Awesomeness", and run it with much of the cost of the WTCC, but none of the manufacturer support or rivalry and no drivers of much notoriety. You'd be mad to expect it to compete with it, and optimistic to hope it gets the same level of coverage (which in the UK is fairly minor anyway, we get the races live on a satellite channel, but the major channels never give it even a mention).

An off-season international touring car series would be interesting, but it would have to be of WTCC level to be taken seriously by enthusiasts in the long term, and even less likely to be newsworthy. A gimmick would create a brief spell of interest, but nothing more.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I said it's vastly more difficult - as proven by the two or three people you mentioned who didn't actually make it to F1. These days you can get an F1 test just be being a best looking in F3 or having the whitest smile in Superleague. Getting to F1 properly is rather more difficult.

Oh we're talking about actual drives Whoops. I'm already pleased that people on the outside gets tests (of course whether that means anything depends on the team). But your right, speaking of drives it is insanely difficult.

Quote from sinbad :

I think much of the same applies, the big ones all have some level of manufacturer backing, which helps. Though IMO they each do well (although "well" is a relative term) because they're in their own respective niche, and have no delusions that they're going to compete with F1 in any way.

You'd be brave to come along and try to set up an "International Touring Car Series of Awesomeness", and run it with much of the cost of the WTCC, but none of the manufacturer support or rivalry and no drivers of much notoriety. You'd be mad to expect it to compete with it, and optimistic to hope it gets the same level of coverage (which in the UK is fairly minor anyway, we get the races live on a satellite channel, but the major channels never give it even a mention).

An off-season international touring car series would be interesting, but it would have to be of WTCC level to be taken seriously by enthusiasts in the long term, and even less likely to be newsworthy. A gimmick would create a brief spell of interest, but nothing more.

Yeah, alright, guess it works the same way because we are speaking of the broad international market. On a smaller scale, it's sorta like how NASCAR basically pushes out all other competition in the US. IROC and CORR closed, and no one here really cares about ARCA, USAR, SCORE or ICSCC.

I think it's too bad that some discipline doesnt get as much attention as others internationally. (Although someone really needs to clean up WTCC). But I guess each to his/her own Which might explain why F1 is so eurocentric

That's mainly due to the best brains in racing generally being in England, and most of the best drivers being European. Even from the, say, Asian or Japanese series, the best graduating drivers tend to be Europeans (badly managed Europeans for being there in the first place admittedly).

Quote from tristancliffe :

That's mainly due to the best brains in racing generally being in England, and most of the best drivers being European. Even from the, say, Asian or Japanese series, the best graduating drivers tend to be Europeans (badly managed Europeans for being there in the first place admittedly).

Well

1. You forgot the Australians and the Brazilians who've had a long history of motorsports success. Of course, both areas are more focused on closed wheel within their region (V8, TC2000).

2. As for Asian or Japanese series have always been weak per say. Where as America has a much stronger "other" series being IndyCar, Asian only has GP2 Asia and Formula Nippon. Much much weaker. (Just look at the winners of FNippon).

What else does Asia have? Hong Kong Touring Car (actually being completely asian)? ATCS (also being completely asian)? What the heck is that compared to V8 or BTCC?

3. Another series that Europeans have yet to dominate is of course stock cars and WSORR. Both are strictly american. One oval tarmac the other off-road trucks.

But this is all cultural upbringing. I can bring the classical music competition in here. (Which is essential for a concert pianist's success). Back in the 90s it was an all European game. But now the focus have completely shifted from European to Chinese and Korea. Just take a look at the Van Cliburn Competition. Finalists is almost completely Asian. So are the best classical music minds in Asia? No. But if you are blindly faithful to statistics than it would be yes

I agree fully with tristan's point that racing in Europe is where you need to be. However there is a slowly developing shift that Lizardfolk has touched upon. Generally in karting we a tad ahead of the trend (hence we can make a lot of money betting on future F1 champions )

We are seeing more financial investment from the Russians in some of their drivers. Some middle easterns are now starting to develop drivers and teams as well. The FIA pushed for the World Champs to be held in Macau this year. Granted it was a complete and utter disaster, but it did demonstrate that focus is moving away from Europe. As domestic scenes accross the world strengthen we will see a change

The wealth of the world IS moving Easterly and I am sure this will be reflected in motorsport soon.

The money is definately going East, but for now the majority of the expertise seems to be staying where it is, I think it will do for a while.

Expertise goes where the money goes. If the money is definitely moving East, it is only a matter of time before the expertise moves that way too.

As I say if you look at the scenes the expertise is already moving abroad. I know some coaches already setting up shop in Asia. You also have the BMW Asia series. I know a couple of drivers who are competing in it. For sure the Asian national scenes need to be developed a lot more but it won't be too long before the shift to Asia becomes evident. The UK will still remain hub for car racing for another 5 years but the change is inevitable

Depends on whether Asia manages to produce a few more notably successful teams and drivers. If they don't manage to break through into the 'mainstream' then perhaps investors in Asia will lose interest. (Aswe have seen with Toyota, they lost interest after they didn't make it).

At the moment there isn't many Asian drivers making a mark in the karting scene. The Japanese national scene is pretty strong but we are yet to see any real break throughs with Asian drivers. We will of course see some come through into F1 like we have with Sato/Nakajima/Kobyashi purely because of the financial might can bring with them (though atm it appears unlikely). I give it 5-7 years before we see a visible change.