Quote from tristancliffe :

The answer is - it depends on the car, but on most production cars you have no adjustment other than toe and tyre pressures without buying new things.

Say what? Lots of cars have adjustable camber without buying new parts. You won't be getting any insane degrees out of a road car but there are still a lot of cars that allow a few degrees of adjustment.

Not many. The world is mostly populated by hatchbacks and repmobiles, the vast majority of which have McPherson struts up front and a form of trailing arm/solid axle or multilink suspension that doesn't provide adjustment. Sure there are exceptions - and I'm sure you'll post some. But that doesn't alter the fact that most cars aren't designed to be adjustable or tweaked, but just work out of the box within the tolerances of manufacture.

my dads seen 4-5 and maybe a few more different manufacturers so he will have a pretty generalized answer

dodge te most exp, chrysler, jeep, lexus, toyota, and maybe a few mazdas nissans and such (for those who give a hoot :razz

Quote from tristancliffe :

Not many. The world is mostly populated by hatchbacks and repmobiles, the vast majority of which have McPherson struts up front and a form of trailing arm/solid axle or multilink suspension that doesn't provide adjustment. Sure there are exceptions - and I'm sure you'll post some. But that doesn't alter the fact that most cars aren't designed to be adjustable or tweaked, but just work out of the box within the tolerances of manufacture.

There are McPherson struts that allow camber adjustment:
http://www.perrinperformance.c ... roducts/139/744_large.jpg

And as far as I know, they are pretty common.

Trailing arms/solid axles are a little more problematic. But multilink trailing arms sometimes allow camber changes as well.

The average car is going to have camber adjustments. And cars in LFS aren't 'repmobiles' anyway. So I would be expecting some camber changes to be allowed.

Quote from danowat :

Obviously you care enough to post that ya tool

And I care

The more people that play LFS regularly the better, and if you can encourage experienced people back to make up that number all the better

So I can whole heartedly say that I hope future improvements in LFS do bring back many many old timers

Quote from Ziploc :

The average car is going to have camber adjustments. And cars in LFS aren't 'repmobiles' anyway. So I would be expecting some camber changes to be allowed.

A lot of cars with McPherson strut suspension allow some kind of crude camber adjustment, on mk2 Golfs it is simply a slightly oversize hole allowing the strut to be positioned as to compensate for damage, though most people usually try and bolt it to get the maximum static camber. Most of these systems though will only allow for half a degree or so adjustment around the designed camber, simply to compensate wear and tear, they are not truly adjustable.

Quote from southamptonfc :

If the devs aim is to create an alternative reality then fine but otherwise I think there's a contradiction somewhere.

Which I think it isn't what they are aiming for, they just want us to have different type of cars to race with, even low budget shopping trolleys are included because they provide a different form of experience compare to full on racing cars.

ajp you need to seriously stop brown nosing or whatever your trying to do, i only ever see you post after tristan and that's either to copy what he's already said or back him up in a discussion hes having with someone, its getting really tiring...

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

ajp you need to seriously stop brown nosing or whatever your trying to do, i only ever see you post after tristan and that's either to copy what he's already said or back him up in a discussion hes having with someone, its getting really tiring...

Posts like yours are more tiring tbo :rolleyes:

asked my dad, he said all have toe ajustments, and somewhere in between some and most (closer to some) have camber and caster.....thats all i really understood other then if you ajust too much sometimes components bump into each other, or was that the talk about why cars dont come through with more steering lock

Still think id rather have a download link lol but thanks for report Scawen!

Quote from Glenn67 :

Posts like yours are more tiring tbo :rolleyes:

Poor TBOs, they get so tired so easily

Quote from Glenn67 :

And I care

The more people that play LFS regularly the better, and if you can encourage experienced people back to make up that number all the better

So I can whole heartedly say that I hope future improvements in LFS do bring back many many old timers

Glenn67,

Just who are you calling an "Old Timer"?

Quote from Gimpster :

Just who are you calling an "Old Timer"?

Well anyone that had LFS between 2002 and late 2003 is definitely old timers in LFS terms even if their age is 20 and lets see you are 37 and had LFS also in the 2002 - 2003 bracket so your definitely an old timer

I myself only started out in LFS in early 2004 so I am only just scrapping into that bracket of old timers by the slimiest of margins, so taking that into account with my age of 42 I reckon in LFS terms I'm about your age or possibly even younger than you you old fart

Quote from Mp3 Astra :

Poor TBOs, they get so tired so easily

Yeah I'm hoping the new physics improvements will freshen up those poor tbo's a bit myself

are you refferring to the rb4 feeling slow all the time

found your topic with Googling for tyre-pressure.
Here a copy I use on many fora about calculating tyre-pressure with formula. Mayby you can use it in your tire Fhysics study.
You can also mail me at the Hotmail.com adres with the username Here.
Use a titel that cant be comfused with spam, so I wont delete it.

Been busy since 2007 with calculating tyre-pressure with use of the formula of the European ETRTO, I got hold of then.
Learned myself Excell to make spreadsheets for it.

Last made is one to re-calculate advice-pressures when tyres are placed on the car with other specifications then the original. But can also be used to check the original tyres and see if you can go lower in sertain conditions.
http://cid-a526e0eee092e6dc.sk ... lculating%20tyre-pressure
in this map always take the newest version and there are examples.
In the first apearing sheet, the data you need are called.
From this link you can navigate my complete public map on hotmail to find more spreadsheets and articles about tire-pressure-formula.

Mind that the American TRA uses a formula wich comes to lower pressures so warmer tyres. Also the japanese JATMA uses probably that formula but uses the tyre-typing of the ETRTO. But you can calculate those tyres with the ETRTO formula to get saver pressures.In case of daubt always select the tyre with het highest reference pressure and the lowest Load-index, so you never get to low pressures.
In case the advice pressure with TRA gives 26 psi or 180kPa then that is the border where they dont go under. then the ETRTO way can sometimes calculate a lower advice pressure but stil a save one. ETRTO can go down to 21psi or 150kPa and some car-manufacturers dare to go down to 20 psi ( 140kPa) for on the road. In sand sometimes 0,5 bar is used but you have to highen it when you go on the road.

Älso made a spreadsheet to see what the temperature in the tyre does to the pressure. This can be used instead of the 4 psi rule, mentioned here.
Mind that higher pressure then calculated give lower tyre-temperatures so less highening up of the pressure. And you have to use the actual weight for that.
http://cid-a526e0eee092e6dc.sk ... recalculationwithtemp.xls

I myself introduced the load-precentage.
If you calculate for say 1000kg the advice pressure with the formula, then if the actual weight is 850 kg, then the load-percentage ( LP) is 850/1000=0,85=85%.
I concluded that if LP=85% then the surface on the ground of the tyre is also 85% of that when 1000kg would be on the tyre.

Concluded by information from sites and reactions,the next LP things.

1. the lower LP the lesser grip because of the lower temperature of the tyre surface.
2. Lower LP gives less fuel consumption.
3. 100% LP gives the most gripp and about 95% tyre-live.
4. you may not go over 100% LP on the road.
5. 95% LP gives 100% tyre-live and almost maximum gripp.
6. 90% LP gives 95% tyre-live and still enaugh gripp and lower fuel consumption.
7. under 85% LP most persons and animal experiënce discomfort bij bouncing. This border can be discussed.
8 under 80% LP screws bounce loose from caravans (that is what we in Holland call houses to tow behind your car).
9.because higher temperature gives more gripp at warm ambient temperature you could calculate for a higher speed or lower LP, so the tyres wont get to warm.

Scawen would probably say "
I think it should be corrected, but mijn Nederlands is niet goed.

Anyway nice from you that you try to help.

Quote from Ziploc :

Say what? Lots of cars have adjustable camber without buying new parts. You won't be getting any insane degrees out of a road car but there are still a lot of cars that allow a few degrees of adjustment.

i can adjust the front end camber on my 2001 VW Polo TDI Variant

Quote from Ziploc :

Say what? Lots of cars have adjustable camber without buying new parts. You won't be getting any insane degrees out of a road car but there are still a lot of cars that allow a few degrees of adjustment.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Not many. The world is mostly populated by hatchbacks and repmobiles, the vast majority of which have McPherson struts up front and a form of trailing arm/solid axle or multilink suspension that doesn't provide adjustment. Sure there are exceptions - and I'm sure you'll post some. But that doesn't alter the fact that most cars aren't designed to be adjustable or tweaked, but just work out of the box within the tolerances of manufacture.

Quote from ajp71 :

A lot of cars with McPherson strut suspension allow some kind of crude camber adjustment, on mk2 Golfs it is simply a slightly oversize hole allowing the strut to be positioned as to compensate for damage, though most people usually try and bolt it to get the maximum static camber. Most of these systems though will only allow for half a degree or so adjustment around the designed camber, simply to compensate wear and tear, they are not truly adjustable.

My volvo has mcpherson strut up front, and trailing arm suspension in the rear. both ends have camber adjustment -- don't forget for alignments this can be a big deal. Usually this only translates to about 1.5 degrees, so it's not a lot, but still something.

I wonder if scawen has any input on the camber issue.

I agree that camber adjustments are available on some road cars. Especially ones similar to what is available in LFS. Camber adjustment is part of the alignment. I am sure the range does not allow for +/- 4 degrees of camber, but the option is available.

Here are some cars that have slight camber adjustments from stock that I have come across on the internet:

Subaru Impreza
Nissan 240SX
Mazda RX7
Mitsubishi Starion
Honda Civic

I am glad that the setup limitation will most likely be a server-side option.

I.M.O.:

The road cars in lfs are spec class cars that allow adjustments to the suspension.

Maybe a bit late to the party Scawen, but as a current ex-LFS`er, it`s refreshingly nice to see a progress report. Very unusual, due to the obvious reasons, but very nice indeed. Please continue.

I found some videos of tyre deformation test that can be usefully to devs.

TEST tyre http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8UiE7yvO_M

TEST tyre http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmo_dkNZIHM

Cam on a BMW M3 in a track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lG2nNcYAtY

How can a video be useful?
It's not like you see ONE tyre in one condition and pretend you're done.
This kind of thing requires much more than a visual test on a rolling road.

Quote from Ger Roady :

Scawen would probably say "
I think it should be corrected, but mijn Nederlands is niet goed.

Anyway nice from you that you try to help.

That was the idea to help. If you know how it is done in the real world , you dont have to find it out from the beginning. And I forgot to write, I am from Holand so sorry for mis-spellings and the use of wrong words.

But I tried to send the topicstarter a personal message, because my reaction might be burried in all the other ones. Didnt work so I place this message again. Can also help you to the original formula of the ETRTO and some articles about temperature and grip, wich I dont understand myself yet. My first reaction #170.