Do you think guest teams in GTAL are necessary? The spot that they take up can be used for another GTAL level team to have a chance at the league that is meant for them, and it also removes the real feeling of winning from the team that should have won if the guest team wasn't involved.

Pros of guest teams:
-they set an example for us (which can be set by watching MoE/IGTC)

Conns:
-fill a spot which another team could use
-takes away the satisfaction of winning for GTAL teams

Tell me what you think.

Guest teams are not just there to set an example for us. They are there to give an indication as to how a perspective team would perform if they were to move to a league such as MoE, iirc this is a 'feeder' series?

Although I agree that 2nd place is not 1st place if the guest team wins, but it would also be very rewarding if a GTAL team pipped the guest team to the win - so it works both ways.

Quote from Scott Mckenzie :

Guest teams are not just there to set an example for us. They are there to give an indication as to how a perspective team would perform if they were to move to a league such as MoE, iirc this is a 'feeder' series?

Although I agree that 2nd place is not 1st place if the guest team wins, but it would also be very rewarding if a GTAL team pipped the guest team to the win - so it works both ways.

But thats unlikely to happen when they use there top MoE drivers.. And all those examples can be given by just watching a MoE or IGTC race stream, its not worth taking a spot away from a possible full time GTAL team.

Quote from racer hero :

But thats unlikely to happen when they use there top MoE drivers..

Hmm, I think you can see that we aren't using our top MoE drivers. We are using this invitation as an opportunity to give our lesser experienced drivers experience in endurance racing.

For the record, we just added Hugo as a backup driver because Eiw is having hardware issues.

Considering the level of talent already in GTAL, i don't think we need a guest team "to show us how it's done".

How many teams throughout the season are going to sit on the sidelines and say, "Man if it wasn't for the guest team, we'd be racing"?

Giving one more team the opportunity to race could generate more interest....

What if one team, outside the top 10 in points, were allowed to invite a guest driver? Said driver would have to follow the percentage rules, but could boost one team's performance, moral, interest in competing, and maybe even confidence.

I'm sure NDR could figure out an interesting way on how to choose which team would be picked for each round.

My $.02

Well its a bit in the middle for me just like deadbone and scott here.
I totally agree on with you Kenneth that they take up a spot.
However thier here to show us the way it should be done as well.
But since they are normaly way up front it doesnt really help the guys who are trying their hardest but cant compete.

So in the end I think we can loose a guest team and hand over the spot to another new team so they can learn the ropes.

Quote from niall09 :

Hmm, I think you can see that we aren't using our top MoE drivers. We are using this invitation as an opportunity to give our lesser experienced drivers experience in endurance racing.

For the record, we just added Hugo as a backup driver because Eiw is having hardware issues.

Hugo is a top MoE driver, backup or not. Either way, I wasn't talking about you guys, but guest teams in general. I know we won't be able to enforce this by this round...

Quote from z-ro 8 :

Considering the level of talent already in GTAL, i don't think we need a guest team "to show us how it's done".

How many teams throughout the season are going to sit on the sidelines and say, "Man if it wasn't for the guest team, we'd be racing"?

Giving one more team the opportunity to race could generate more interest....

What if one team, outside the top 10 in points, were allowed to invite a guest driver? Said driver would have to follow the percentage rules, but could boost one team's performance, moral, interest in competing, and maybe even confidence.

I'm sure NDR could figure out an interesting way on how to choose which team would be picked for each round.

My $.02

Or we could pick the guest team as someone on the reserve list, so they all get a chance? Sure, there not setting an example anymore, but like you said, I'm sure Tommy can take care of setting the example.

Nah, I dont have time to prepare properly for these races anymore, as MoE takes my time now. But I will still be driving and try my best :P But I just dont manage to switch from XRR GT1 to FZ2 on a day :P

I agree with you, Kenneth. GTAL already has some talents, and a guest-team isnt needed. I think you first have to focus on beating the teams in GTAL, THEN move up to beat the teams in MoE :P

As you might know, Kenneth did MoE yesterday and did a pretty good job. The GTAL drivers can first focus on beating him (or me for instance:shy before they start fighting with the top teams. For example: How much did we need spdo in R1? Who got better because spdo were taking part? I bet thats pretty much zero... :P

Quote from z-ro 8 :

Considering the level of talent already in GTAL, i don't think we need a guest team "to show us how it's done".

How many teams throughout the season are going to sit on the sidelines and say, "Man if it wasn't for the guest team, we'd be racing"?

Giving one more team the opportunity to race could generate more interest....

+1.


But well, honestly, why not then allow 30 cars instead of 29, and get rid of the SC at SO, like how it's done at MoE? Or even, organise a pre-qual session at each event in order to pick the 29 for each race(cmon, 4 quali session are currently held at each event, so why can't we scrap 1 or 2 and do that?)

These are my own 2 cents.

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

+1.


But well, honestly, why not then allow 30 cars instead of 29, and get rid of the SC at SO, like how it's done at MoE? Or even, organise a pre-qual session at each event in order to pick the 29 for each race(cmon, 4 quali session are currently held at each event, so why can't we scrap 1 or 2 and do that?)

These are my own 2 cents.

then it would be iTCC

I think its much fairer to include another team from the waiting list rather than the guest teams. This adds a more realistic depth of field ability/spread.

most of the voters FOR a guest team is MoE drivers (or managers :P) well, some :P

I don't know about you guys, but if I was serious about endurance racing and wanted to get into MoE/IGTC then I would want a guest team. Why wouldn't you want to know where you shape up vs a great team?

I thought this series was a building block, but how can you become better when you have nothing to compare to?

Quote from z-ro 8 :

then it would be iTCC

Errrh... Yea. But wouldn't it be a bit fairer, honestly?

Actually, the 4 last full-time slots teams were choosen because of obscure judgements that were never revealed in public, so wouldn't it bring a bit more equality to judge on the team's performance, and on their performances only?

I also wanted to say that I fully agree with Tommy, and that I do think that spdo's race in round 1 was a pure farce. They came unprepared, without enough drivers, and ended their race at 1/3 way point. While, there were at least 3 teams(VM, Tiger Express, IRM, and possibly a few others) that actually trained for the event, went at RSR's test race in order to gain more experience, and put a lot of efforts without being reconpensed in the end. They all had a reasonabily decent rooster, with ex-MoE/IGTC drivers looking for re-boosting their carriers, and other pure talents looking for more endurance experience; their only default was that they weren't called "3id", or "spdo". Isn't that a bit injust, honestly?

Quote from PMD9409 :

I don't know about you guys, but if I was serious about endurance racing and wanted to get into MoE/IGTC then I would want a guest team. Why wouldn't you want to know where you shape up vs a great team?

I thought this series was a building block, but how can you become better when you have nothing to compare to?

You don't need a guest team to do that. Watch the MoE tracker/stream and watch there times and you'll be able to compare yourself to the top teams much better then you will be able to when they are driving off into the distance.

@ yann...fairer yes. but then you're talking about revamping the whole system.

kenneth, as surprising as it is, has a very valid point, and is only asking that one aspect of GTAL be "considered for change", not a complete redo of the system that it is....

as far as needing a MoE-quality team in these races, i don't.
i already know, not just by watching MoE yesterday, that i for one am not MoE material.

Don't need a team i'll never see in a race i'm in......

Quote from Tomhah :

most of the voters FOR a guest team is MoE drivers (or managers :P) well, some :P

Hmm.. the more experienced ones all vote for the same thing. Sure that ain't sayin something?

Quote from PMD9409 :

I don't know about you guys, but if I was serious about endurance racing and wanted to get into MoE/IGTC then I would want a guest team. Why wouldn't you want to know where you shape up vs a great team?

I thought this series was a building block, but how can you become better when you have nothing to compare to?

Honestly, there are enough ex-MoE/IGTC drivers in there, including top ones.

Edit by deko - let's not bring specific drivers into this shall we?

Edit, by your servitor - Oh right, just wanted to give some examples, in order to make the things clearer to everyone :hide:

+1 racer hero, no guest teams.

Guest teams should be allowed.

I don't understand that topic...indeed one more car could be nice for the show but guest team creat a kind of new motivation i think.

Let me explain what i want to say. Last year when i was not yet racing in moe i was more motivated by beating these moe drivers than winning the 'gtal race'. And if you check last year result, you can see that fluid beat core at bl1r, eteam beat spdo at so and low racing is the only guest team who won a gtal race and it wasn't easy for them! isn't it more motivating to race against moe drivers to show them that you aren't so amateur?

Maybe this is what enable raptor, fluid, eer and eteam to be this year in moe because they have shown that they can beat moe teams in one race.

Regards.

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

Honestly, there are enough ex-MoE/IGTC drivers in there, including top ones.

E : And let's not forget the people doing both MoE and GTAL(Kenneth, Tommy:hide

Don't forget Seb.

I think they should stay, if only so that we have a better comparison as to where we stand in reference to MoE teams. I didn't watch GTAL last year (except some of the Round 1 replay) but it sounds like in none of the races the MoE team zoomed off into the distance.

For the top GTAL teams at least, that's a great motivator to continue what they're doing, as they can see how close they are to MoE standards of pace. For guys like Yann and others who didn't get in... well I'm sure NDR did their best to be fair to everyone. I'm sure Tiger Express will get in by the end of the season at least.

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

And let's not forget the people doing both MoE and GTAL(Kenneth, Tommy, Seb)

That bugs me more than a guest team.

Though I voted no:
- They do not contribute that much at all.
- They can be seen in MoE / IGTC broadcasting action live.
- They often provide more frustration than joy; not all guest teams perform well and are as pro as they might look - they can also cause crashes during races with championship consequences for us but zero for them. I'd rather have a 30rd active team racing then. It's not like there is no interest for people to join up in GTAL that we need "top teams" to fill up the slots. Now I'm thinking about this, it's actually pretty rude to use this guest team while people are eager, amateurs and wanting to race! Especially if you go announce them like Round 2 guest team is being announced...
- And last but not least: realism (not to forget in LFS). If we want to add realism by using annoying wind, rolling starts, safety cars, heavy rules and other; then also do it with the drivers and teams. I don't see Vettel (to take a well known example) driving in the GP2 during the F1 season to "motivate the GP2 racers and to show them how it has to be done". I neither see him racing officialy in NASCAR and F1 at the same time (to end up with my pointé from the very first line in this post).

If I want to race MoE or IGTC folks I'd join those leagues and not GTAL. Imho the "amateurism" in GTAL really isn't so present as I had expected / hoped for in GTAL. Not really sure (aside that I suck, obviously) why I signed up for GTAL and not for IGTC.

For people that take this serious, you sure aren't willing to learn.