If you have to ask us about what the rules say, you haven't read them.

"The decision will be based on the following factors: Performance in the participated IGTC or MoE Rounds, relevant recent (approximately 6 months) league experience, and relevant statistics as found on LFS World."

Also, you can't just assume that Brunzel was allowed to race, as the rules say he is automatically ineligible and cannot race unless you get permission. If NDR don't answer, ask again closer to the time until they answer. His pace from his MoE stint and the other results I can see for him makes me think he's an advanced driver and shouldn't be racing.

Quote from Jakg :

FXR is going to be slower - if you take a car and add 4WD, you add extra weight via diffs etc, and those extra spinning things means more transmission loss and less power to the wheels. The advantage is you can get the power down earlier - however with "only" 500 HP from a laggy turbo and a smooth slick surface, that doesn't outweigh the disadvantage for pure speed.

The advantage is you can be much more consistent in an FXR - too much throttle in an FZR and you have 250 BHP per wheel pushing you anywhere but straight, too much throttle in an FXR and you have 125 BHP per wheel at the back doing the same, but 125 BHP at the front pulling you forward, counteracting it. Similarly the FXR is also slightly easier on tyres because theres less power willing to burn rubber to each individual wheel.

You can't compare that in all out times the FXR is slower... because it should be. On a long race level they should be closer, but still the FXR should be slower because it's easier and more consistent. What'd be the point in getting in an FZR and running the risk of spinning when you can run in an FXR at the same pace with reduced risk?

If I was going to drive an endurance race i'd pick an FXR for the first few goes - because while I'm not exactly shit the 0.5 seconds I might lose one lap could be more than made up by the 20 seconds I lose spinning off into a wall and the subsequent 3 minute lap I make limping back to the pits. If I got consistency down then it's time to add more risk and try to get that extra 0.5 seconds.

The point of a class is that the cars are different - each car SHOULD have advantages and disadvantages. You can't chose the easy option and the bitch because it's hard to win all the time.

<uber post>

You've kinda completely and totally missed the boat there

We know the FXR is slower NORMALLY. We've restricted the cars and people are complaining the restriction is too harsh.

It could be worse. At least I didnt get "Live For Speed" and "Linux From Scratch" confused like one poster...

Because of the thing with maddin15:

Martin is an Open Wheel driver, not a GTR driver... look at his WRs! In The last time there were only sprint races in the City Liga. So i think his endurance capability is not good.
Next point is, that maddin had a long break from LFS and only drove City Liga in that phase.
And my last point:
Kenneth and Tommy are very similar with Martins skills, so i think if Martin is not allowed to drive, you should diqualify them too from season.
Do you have rules or not? At the moment you should think about them, because you made exceptions for 2 advanced drivers for maybe friends, and now there is a guy from our team who had no endurance experience in the last year and you say "no".

I think you have two options now:
- DQ the other advanced drivers from GTAL
- let Martin drive

You HAVE TO make a decision of this two options, otherwise you loose your trustworthiness and you will blow up the spirit of the league.
The idea of this league was to give "not MoE and IGTC Teams" a place to enhance their endurance capabilities and we from Xcite are not good in this section atm. We want to learn from faster drivers and this is only possible, if they are IN the team. Other teams will show you the middlefinger.

I'm not very surprised that you have not read the rules, but maybe you should? Jesus its not hard.

Quote from Trekkerfahrer :

So i think his endurance capability is not good.

Then wtf are you arguing for? If you "think his endurance capability is not good" wouldn't you be better served find a good driver who doesn't contravene the rules? Your straw man argument isn't fooling anyone.

Quote from Trekkerfahrer :

Because of the thing with maddin15:

Martin is an Open Wheel driver, not a GTR driver... look at his WRs! In The last time there were only sprint races in the City Liga. So i think his endurance capability is not good.
Next point is, that maddin had a long break from LFS and only drove City Liga in that phase.
And my last point:
Kenneth and Tommy are very similar with Martins skills, so i think if Martin is not allowed to drive, you should diqualify them too from season.
Do you have rules or not? At the moment you should think about them, because you made exceptions for 2 advanced drivers for maybe friends, and now there is a guy from our team who had no endurance experience in the last year and you say "no".

I think you have two options now:
- DQ the other advanced drivers from GTAL
- let Martin drive

You HAVE TO make a decision of this two options, otherwise you loose your trustworthiness and you will blow up the spirit of the league.
The idea of this league was to give "not MoE and IGTC Teams" a place to enhance their endurance capabilities and we from Xcite are not good in this section atm. We want to learn from faster drivers and this is only possible, if they are IN the team. Other teams will show you the middlefinger.

It's funny how you try to force Deko into a decision. There is no intimidating Deko, he doesn't care if people don't like him, and that is what makes him a good admin. Kthx.

Quote from racer hero :

It's funny how you try to force Deko into a decision. There is no intimidating Deko, he doesn't care if people don't like him, and that is what makes him a good admin. Kthx.

http://www.spdoracing.com/eventdb/driver/Racer+hero
http://www.spdoracing.com/eventdb/driver/Maddin15

Okay, now tell me where it is a good decision?
You have more wins, poles and podiums in a shorter time dude!

Ah, and i forgot your good place in following IGTC race:
http://www.spdoracing.com/eventdb/event/910

And I have almost double the races that he has. I remember us going through a simular situation with you last year, now you know how it feels, and the IGTC race was FXR.

Quote from racer hero :

And I have almost double the races that he has. I remember us going through a simular situation with you last year, now you know how it feels.

The main reason why we DQed you is that you tried to cheat us in the Test Event. The other thing was another rulebook we had compared to the actual

And FXR is not a reason GTR Endurance is GTR Endurance

Okay folks, an appeal has been recieved reagarding the matter, and we will now deal with it and come to a decision shortly.

It MUST be known that favourites are not played here. We are what I like to call "Equal Opportunity Offenders": we don't care who you are, we will enforce rules. And in the case of a judgement call which it is whether or not an MoE or IGTC driver should be allowed into GTAL there is room interpretation - of stats, recorded experiences, etc.

If you would like to contest a decision, please do it in a civilised manner. Attacking any other driver for "getting through the same rule but us not" or us admins for "playing favourites" is certainly not acceptable, and quite on the verge of unsporting behaviour.

I, and the rest of NDR, will tolerate ONLY polite, courteous discussion to achieve a common goal: You to get what you wish to get, within our rules as they are enforced.

dekojester.

Quote from trekkerfahrer :

http://www.spdoracing.com/eventdb/driver/racer+hero
http://www.spdoracing.com/eventdb/driver/maddin15

okay, now tell me where it is a good decision?
You have more wins, poles and podiums in a shorter time dude!

Ah, and i forgot your good place in following igtc race:
http://www.spdoracing.com/eventdb/event/910

omfg you learned how to use spdo database.... You all growed up trekker maybe you might be a competent non hypocritical numpty now!!!!!!!1!!!

Quote from dekojester :

Okay folks, an appeal has been recieved reagarding the matter, and we will now deal with it and come to a decision shortly.

It MUST be known that favourites are not played here. We are what I like to call "Equal Opportunity Offenders": we don't care who you are, we will enforce rules. And in the case of a judgement call which it is whether or not an MoE or IGTC driver should be allowed into GTAL there is room interpretation - of stats, recorded experiences, etc.

If you would like to contest a decision, please do it in a civilised manner. Attacking any other driver for "getting through the same rule but us not" or us admins for "playing favourites" is certainly not acceptable, and quite on the verge of unsporting behaviour.

I, and the rest of NDR, will tolerate ONLY polite, courteous discussion to achieve a common goal: You to get what you wish to get, within our rules as they are enforced.

dekojester.

Then DO somthing and do not talk around the things.... We got 3 different main reasons why he is not allowed to drive. So what is the main reason now? Is it his open wheel WRs? Is it his speed? Or is it why he only drove one nedurance event in the last two years?

We feel like in an unemployment agency now....

Quote from Trekkerfahrer :

Or is it why he only drove one nedurance event in the last two years?

Last time around it was one endu event in the last year.
Stop changing your own argument and then ask for the same in return.

Quote from Trekkerfahrer :

Then DO somthing and do not talk around the things.... We got 3 different main reasons why he is not allowed to drive. So what is the main reason now? Is it his open wheel WRs? Is it his speed? Or is it why he only drove one nedurance event in the last two years?

We feel like in an unemployment agency now....

I have stated the reasons for our choice to not permit him entry in the email sent to the team, and the IM conversation with you regarding it.

It involves the experiences we find the driver to have had by looking at his statistics and results on LFSWorld and spdoEventdb. It involves the pace shown in events he has participated in.

The appeal process provides opportunities to prove your side of it in an attempt to reverse the decision.

The other 27 teams in the league do not need to know all the details regarding this situation, simply because this conversation is going on longer in public than it should be, which can and will provide a distraction to the other teams.

Further posts regarding this situation will be removed from this thread.

d.

Quote from dekojester :

I have stated the reasons for our choice to not permit him entry in the email sent to the team, and the IM conversation with you regarding it.

It involves the experiences we find the driver to have had by looking at his statistics and results on LFSWorld and spdoEventdb. It involves the pace shown in events he has participated in.

The appeal process provides opportunities to prove your side of it in an attempt to reverse the decision.

The other 27 teams in the league do not need to know all the details regarding this situation, simply because this conversation is going on longer in public than it should be, which can and will provide a distraction to the other teams.

Further posts regarding this situation will be removed from this thread.

d.

Write to me on MSN

What a fuzz over allmost nothing?!
All in here knows and accept that the big teams use GTAL to set less experienced racers in endurance racing heat. I just don't understand why not Racer Hero or Tommy (or Maddin) can race here. For sure they need this experience for reasons only the team themselves know. I can't see any alien with a lot of MoE experience have any desire to drive here, maybe to help out with a helping hand, but I don't think they see any glory to win in GTAL among amateurs.
They'll probably wount have the time to do any praccy here since they'll be ocupied with MoE anyway.

Quote from cawwa :

what a fuzz over allmost nothing?!
All in here knows and accept that the big teams use gtal to set less experienced racers in endurance racing heat. I just don't understand why not racer hero or tommy (or maddin) can race here. For sure they need this experience for reasons only the team themselves know. I can't see any alien with a lot of moe experience have any desire to drive here, maybe to help out with a helping hand, but i don't think they see any glory to win in gtal among amateurs.
They'll probably wount have the time to do any praccy here since they'll be ocupied with moe anyway.

+1

Quote from Trekkerfahrer :

And my last point:
Kenneth and Tommy are very similar with Martins skills, so i think if Martin is not allowed to drive, you should diqualify them too from season.
Do you have rules or not? At the moment you should think about them, because you made exceptions for 2 advanced drivers for maybe friends, and now there is a guy from our team who had no endurance experience in the last year and you say "no".

I think you have two options now:
- DQ the other advanced drivers from GTAL
- let Martin drive

You HAVE TO make a decision of this two options, otherwise you loose your trustworthiness and you will blow up the spirit of the league.
The idea of this league was to give "not MoE and IGTC Teams" a place to enhance their endurance capabilities and we from Xcite are not good in this section atm. We want to learn from faster drivers and this is only possible, if they are IN the team. Other teams will show you the middlefinger.

Tell me... When did I become an "advanced" driver? I have NEVER done any IGTC or MoE league! I have never won any internetional league!

Please get FACTS before posting anything about me. I feel you guys just run over me, saying that I should be DQ'd for following the rules. Nice guys, thanks, I really apprecitate that.

Quote from Intermediate07 :

But thats only my opinion

Just as well, because your post and many others are a lot of shite. NDR deal with rules and facts, not silly opinions.

Quote from Intermediate07 :

if they can race in the GTAL it should also be possible for Maddin15 to race IMO because kiste added him to the line up about 2 or 3 months ago and nobody said anything against it at this time

For the love of god, read the rules.

Quote from GTAL Rules, section IV :

5. Should a driver who is not considered an Advanced Driver be listed on a team’s GTAL Roster, and races in a GTAL race, but then go on to race in IGTC or MoE, that driver will be allowed to race in GTAL for the remainder of the current season. Should the driver have not made a GTAL start prior to taking part in an IGTC or MoE race, then Rule IV.2 will be enacted.

Okay, so Ken is clear.

Quote from GTAL Rules, secion IV :

[this space intentionally left blank]

Hey, look at that! There's no rule prohibiting Tommy based on his presence on an IGTC/MoE roster!

Your opinion is totally irrelevant. They fall clear of the rules so that's all there is to it.

oh oh oh ....

really nice desiscion guys =)

if someone told me that i can´t drive GTAL because im a advanced driver i must laugh so loud.

If someone set me intoo the linu up and no admin says anyhting about it than i have too wonder why you say something after i drive a bad pole position lap.

Sorry but if i was really an advanced driver.. than i drive 21 constently in qualyfication and not 22 deep.

Well another fact is that im not faster than thoose other drivers here. Nothing about Tomhah oder O Keefe .. I dont know who it was on bl1 but i know that someone of booths was faster than me in the quali.. and thats over 3 tenths as my personal best was that i drove afte r6 hours of practesing. SO now i have me to ask why i get an "advanced driver" and the other guys not.

Well another point is that this leagu is an endurance and a TEAM challenge. So i dont think that 1 fast driver can beat the whole leage alone.
Or you think i can drive in 1 hour so fast that the other people who drive in my team can shake the balls after my pitstop? I don´t think so

Yeah ok maybe Xcite make some mistakes but i think thoose admins do the same mistakes. But you know, as an admin you have more weight on your shoulders and i think an admin cant makes mistakes like this.

If i where admin here i would ask by myself "man ... why i even saw those driver befor they raced"
and thats is another fact. Why you dont saw me befor the 1st race in the line up and say no to me? Now the whole team must maybe change there plans.

I dont know if its right what you do but i hope you give me a chance then i know im not faster than thoose other guys here and the reason why i would driving here is because i like the system and i would help my team and want improve my skill in endurance race to maybe race with my team next year in MoE. Nad i wanna have fun with other guys they so fast like me =)

Maddin

PS: Sorry for my bad english but i do my best =)

Quote from tmehlinger :

Okay, so Ken is clear.

so, really?

Though, I think that both Tommy and Ken are too fast and too experienced for GTAL (Yes you guys are :P) Xcite should've understood that a no-reply doesn't mean a driver is clear to race. That's common sence. Or just take contact with some admin, there plenty of ways to do that. Pm here on the forums, IRC, msn/icq/skype etc.

Big +1 of what Maddin said.