im trying to get a guy to play LFS, hes the current british kart champion and has driven formula renault etc so hes into cars, but hes no computer geek and he cant find out how to play the game. im guiding him best as i can, but its too complicated for him..

u might be wondering, so what, he must be stupid, who needs him...

but if people cant even extract the files etc, what chance do they have of carrying on and playing the game, and buying a licence? Is there no way it could be any simpler?

i know im going to get flamed, but not everyone likes computers and is as knowledgable as us lot...

How can it can more simple than rightclicking the archive and clicking "extract here"? I'd like to know.

Vain

i .. like the whole extraction thing because that way with people that dont have that admin crap that wont let you install anything, it makes sense there, but i think there should also be a choice of wether downloading using zip.. or installation

vain, people DONT KNOW about the extract here thing, they dont know what a zip file is... i guess its not a good place to write a thread like this, because to us using a computer is so easy.

for example i get so angry at old people who cant use a mobile, i want to batter them, but i have to remember, they dont know. i like XCs idea.

Quote from Vain :

How can it can more simple than rightclicking the archive and clicking "extract here"? I'd like to know.

Vain

because not everyone knows how to extract a file. Just because its easy for you doesnt mean it is for someone else..

its a fair point.

i think its genrally accepted that lfs has one of the simplest downloads to install and start.

but

to find lfs in the first place , its probable that any user is conversant with extracting files etc. and maybe we forget that there are people out there who have no idea and want a simpler process to install the game.

maybe there should be an option to download a non compressed version of the game, i know its large (my lfs folders currently 1.34 gb ) but with broadband its not so silly an idea anymore, alternatively maybe the download could be altered so if you click the open option after the download has finished it gives you a standard installation or an advanced installation option. the standard installing to a default location c: programfiles/lfs ? and also automatically places an icon on the desktop

Yeah, whenever I hear about someone having problems with the .zip it makes me think of an installer of some kind. But like XCNuse said, some people can't install without admin rights. Hrm..

One idea is to create some app that could download the latest .zip if needed, or you can select it. Choose the folder to extract, it extracts it. Create all the start menu/desktop/quick launch shortcut stuff? It could do that too. The programmer could include any option we can think of.

Does any app do this already? Ideas?

Or have an installer. They actually decompress the files, but have a graphical GUI to help the "DUM USER" to install the files to a location, or he can just click next and get into the game.

I do like the current setup but understand how this can confuse people. It confused me to start with. Maybe an option to download the game with an installer as well as the current option could be put in place. It wouldn't take to long to make an installer would it.

Also maybe as a community we could all chip in to make a PDF which Scawen could include in the download in addition to the read-me?

As much as i want to be understanding, i always have trouble with
dumbing things down so the most inexperienced person can understand.
I guess there's no harm in having an install.exe, but i'd still wanna have
the option of using the archive. Honestly, i don't think it's the archive
that's complicated for your friend as much as it's every single thing about
a PC. Come to think of it, i love all the settings in LFS, but i wonder if
someone who can't extract an archive will be able to install a wheel,
calibrate it and asign axis in LFS, not to mention all the other settings...

The way i see it, it wouldn't do him any harm to learn a simple thing like
extracting files, god knows with so many PCs around, it could only help.
I don't think you need to be a 'computer geek' to know how to extract
archives. It's not like he needs to change values in the registry or restore
deleted files or something. Why not go to his place and make it a night,
drink some beers, extract the archive for him, show him the basics, have
a few laughs and make a new LFS fan. Or is that not possible ?!

some very valid comments funnybone!

he lives 2 hours away i described it to him on the phone!

Forget zipping the file... Just create a self-extracting RAR archive... Double click, and it asks you where, and then does the job...

But seriously, people that don't know how to unpack a zip file should read the Windows manual, because these files extract in native windows through compressed folders.

Ayrton...
Just provide him with the folder in a self-extracting archive format... It's easier...
If you want him to extract the zip anyway, tell me what he doesn't understand, or what error message he gets.

I learned this kinda stuff at school... But I follow bookkeeping - computer, but still, unzipping something is very easy, and it's even one of the easiest things to do imho. You just need to install the right program (winrar) once, and after that it's just "click, click... done".

BTW, I did know how to unzip stuff before I learned it at school, it was such a boring lessong, they even used winzip, the fools! "use evaluation, yaddy yaddy, that sucks, use winrar -_-".

My point was:
If someone doesn't know how to extract a .zip file, will he know how to use a self-extracting archive and remember where he installed it? Will he be able to operate an installer?
Is there a way to help such a person anymore except going over to his house and installing it for him?

Please, don't take me wrong. These aren't rhetorical questions. If you have any suggestions or comments on this then please bring them up, it might help to get LFS to more people!

Vain

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, feed him for
a lifetime. Sorry, i just couldn't resist.

Too bad your friend lives far away. Apart from the devs creating an install.exe,
i'm not really sure how to help you here.

I think a proper installer would be a great idea for all future versions, and also a proper patch programme.

NSIS is free for the first one, and Clickteam do a cheap patch thingy for 60 USA.

It would make it all easier for everyone really.

But there are plenty more important things for Scawen to do. He could do the installer if he finds himself at a bit of a loose end (lol)

Yeah, I see an awful lot of open source projects that offer either an archive or self extracting exe for download.

The other thing that a lot of people either dont know, or are irritated by, is actually creating a shortcut once you've unzipped it somewhere. Granted, you only need to do it once, but nothing shouts shoddy to me like a demo download that you have to make your own shortcuts to.

Whenever I used to release software with an installer i'd get moaned at ... Most people want zip's. Which is a shame because I can make an installer version much smaller (as then I can use zip7 instead of winzip or winrar).

Generally speaking I used to do my final builds in an installer before mass release because it saved me bandwidth, but I would still put the .exe's inside a .zip (ironically it grows about 600bytes) because some people couldn't download an .exe off the web. Which only serves to confuse things even further.

Pre-release I used .zip's for general beta's and either .zip or .rar (depending on mood and filesize) for closed beta's.

Now though i've given up with all of that and gone the route of an auto-update tool. It still initially comes in a .zip though, else i'd get nasty messages from AOL users again. What's worse is if I give people the choice of an .exe this would only lead to confusion as, from experience, more often than not both files get downloaded.

It's all a confusing mess. The bottom line is "Winzip v8 Max Portable Compression" has become the standard meens to distribute software on the net, and there really isn't any more authors can do to make it easier than the existing OS integration - we can't teach users how to use their computer, although from the support emails i've had over the years you'd be forgiven for thinking we're expected too (few support emails relate to stuff i've written because if my stuff doesnt work people dont bother with it - but people will use any excuse to get support and if that meens seeing where their installed malware causes my game to crash then it's a lead to a new avenue for support!).

Unless we all stick to writing games in Macromedia Flash, you're friend will probably either have to ask for help or learn for himself.

Quote :

hes the current british kart champion and has driven formula renault etc

He didn't race Red Lodge Sprint or Rye House Club Enduro in a Pro Kart in the last few years by chance?

I'm not trying to offend someone here(Though i probably will), but wouldn't it just be better to TEACH the computer-iliterate to use the ****ing computer then to dumb it down for the rest of us?

Quote from duke_toaster :

and Clickteam do a cheap patch thingy for 60 USA.

No needed.
Scawen already mentioned he have on list patching made thru LFS programm to make lives for some people more easily.

Not a offend as I am helping such a people very often with things I cant understand that can even ask for but I have to be very friendly to them and always trying to show them as much as possible in easier way.
There is a lot books now just people need to go to the shop and buy them and read them.PC are nowdays more friendly then in DOS/Win 3.11 times but still it can be challange.
Some people buy PC`s because they thing its so easy but often realize later they even cant do a proper easy things.

I never really had much help working on the computer. The problem is, people think computers are TOO complicated, while it's not like that. I know a lot of people that don't touch a computer because they think they'll break it or something. Well, I always had my own computer, and I just toyed around with it, now I even dare to edit stuff in the registry, without anyone ever teaching me how to do it. So if that friend is just scared to do new stuff, you can't really teach him a lot. He just has to have the guts to himself to find the matching program to open zip files or whatever, useing it, and if it doesn't work, read what's wrong, and try to fix it himself, it's the only way you learn.

I'm using the Clickteam installer for the german LFS S2 CD. It works pretty well as you don't have to manually extract and create shortcuts anymore. In contrast to most of today's installers it doesn't write anything into the registry or put any files in other directories (except the icons).

I agree with Colcob about the shortcut, that's the only thing I'd like to see added. Tough when there's no executable to run to do it for you.

Becky, its not mark litchfield or gary catt, if thats who u are thinking

Just as a one off, couldn't you set it up for him using MSN's remote desktop assistance feature?

http://www.microsoft.com/techn ... ro/maintain/rmassist.mspx