Quote from jibber :

He loves his Gran Turismo for sure, but i wouldn't quite label him a fanboy. Dustin is a better example for that matter.

Well in this instance at least Dustin doesn't seem to be religious about it, he's not saying things like

Quote :

How, how can anyone post this s*it?

, next he will be trying to convert us all. Some people are easier to please than others, and some people are harder to please, does it have to come to THIS? Me telling people that everyone can share a different opinion and it can be OK?


Seriously, somethings going on, I don't feel well

finally played it



1.37,358



Transitions from loss of grip to gain of grip are f*cked. The car keeps sliding like the tires are melted.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Boris, you're such an ignorant fanboy, it's pathetic.

Facepalm. You know that i bought a PS2 just for GT4 back in 2005, and sold them both once LFS came out, yea i'm such a fanboy. I'm just saying that physics in GT game finally have that 'serious' note that PC sims have. It's quite a huge change and i'm enjoying every single lap, maybe you're full of yourself cause you're pi**ed off that you don't have a PS3 so you come here and dare to call me a fanboy.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Facepalm. You know that i bought a PS2 just for GT4 back in 2005, and sold them both once LFS came out, yea i'm such a fanboy. I'm just saying that physics in GT game finally have that 'serious' note that PC sims have. It's quite a huge change and i'm enjoying every single lap, maybe you're full of yourself cause you're pi**ed off that you don't have a PS3 so you come here and dare to call me a fanboy.

Maybe I've played all the GT series and loved them, and Forza 2 and loved that too and I'm waiting to get my hands on Forza 3's phyics and GT5's

Quote from Boris Lozac :

How, how can anyone post this s*it? First of all, games like GT should not be played with a controller, second, physics are just awesome, i really have no idea what some of you are talking about. They outdone themselves, i'm really impressed.

Anyway, 1'38:267 with the tuned so far..

I would be more excited to go back and load up GT3 and GT4 than play that demo again.

And console games are never exclusively designed to be played with a wheel. Forza and the previous GT games have been extremely controllable with a...controller? lol anyways. This game feels like there is a total disconnect to what buttons I push and what happens on screen. A sim should not be confusing...rather pretty damn predictable.

I went into this wanting to like it...just label me as a shit slinger. I have countless hours logged on old GT games. I think they're seriously losing sight of how a console sim should drive. Megahint it should be very comfortable and fulfilling to drive with a controller.

Quote from spanks :

I would be more excited to go back and load up GT3 and GT4 than play that demo again.

And console games are never exclusively designed to be played with a wheel. Forza and the previous GT games have been extremely controllable with a...controller? lol anyways. This game feels like there is a total disconnect to what buttons I push and what happens on screen. A sim should not be confusing...rather pretty damn predictable.

I went into this wanting to like it...just label me as a shit slinger. I have countless hours logged on old GT games. I think they're seriously losing sight of how a console sim should drive. Megahint it should be very comfortable and fulfilling to drive with a controller.

you don´t get it, this is NOT GT5 this is just the GT5 TimeTrial, so there are no aids that you can activate or setups which you can tune, its a product just designed for the competition!

In GT5 you will have also an more arcadish physic and some aids with which its pretty easy to play. And the game IS predictable, but its just the simpart in this TimeTrial so don´t worry in the full game they will add the arcade part and you could again enjoy it.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

I'm just saying that physics in GT game finally have that 'serious' note that PC sims have. It's quite a huge change and i'm enjoying every single lap

This i can agree with. I've come to the conclusion that this game will be good fun. The driving can feel really good sometimes (judging the impressions from the tuned nissan). It feels very nice when i'm hunting for lap times, driving nice lines, smooth lines, trying not to break traction, etc... basically, when you drive good it feels nice, in a smiliar way as other good driving simulators do.

The problem for me really are the physics when you don't drive good.
Whenever i do a mistake in this game, which results in more than just a little slide (it still feels good in this area), then everything goes completely nuts! The way those cars spin out, the way the wheel/force feedback acts in such a moment, etc... the cars are still the same old hovercrafts in these situations. This feels very unrealistic for my taste (and i'm trying to be nice by saying it like this).

There's just plain ridiculous situations that can happen. Yesterday i stepped on the gas a little too early in a corner exit, and by overcorrecting the slide, i've managed to spin the stock nissan no less than THREE times (felt like an ice skating figure attempt), at a speed of 50km/h, in a straight line...

Quote from funRacer[83] :

you don´t get it, this is NOT GT5 this is just the GT5 TimeTrial, so there are no aids that you can activate or setups which you can tune, its a product just designed for the competition!

In GT5 you will have also an more arcadish physic and some aids with which its pretty easy to play. And the game IS predictable, but its just the simpart in this TimeTrial so don´t worry in the full game they will add the arcade part and you could again enjoy it.

Well I never played any of those other console games with aids on, so I'm not sure what I would be waiting for.

Also TC is forced on for the untuned car and it feels absurd.

And lastly, the last 6 months of development will not bring any serious changes to the core of the game...unless they decide to delay another year and a half.

Quote from spanks :

Well I never played any of those other console games with aids on, so I'm not sure what I would be waiting for.

Also TC is forced on for the untuned car and it feels absurd.

And lastly, the last 6 months of development will not bring any serious changes to the core of the game...unless they decide to delay another year and a half.

Obviously you need this aids otherwise its just to difficult for you..

Have you played the GT5prologue? There you can switch from default physics (GT4 like) to "pro physics" and I think this will also be in the final product so if you are ok with the gt4 physics you can enjoy the default physics and if that doesn´t help use some aids. What is the problem if its to difficult for you without just turn them on.

Quote from spanks :

And console games are never exclusively designed to be played with a wheel.

Umm, this one is, and if i recall, real cars are driven with stearing wheels and pedals.. so until you play it with a wheel, restrain yourself from comments. I can't believe people can play with controller, but it's more absurd when they start judging the game by playing it with a controller.

Quote from jibber :

This i can agree with. I've come to the conclusion that this game will be good fun. The driving can feel really good sometimes (judging the impressions from the tuned nissan). It feels very nice when i'm hunting for lap times, driving nice lines, smooth lines, trying not to break traction, etc... basically, when you drive good it feels nice, in a smiliar way as other good driving simulators do.

For reference: My statements above about how I enjoy GT5 were done without having spun the stock Nissan more than 5 times before getting to a low 1:51 laptime.
(I got it sideways often enough ( ) until I started driving more conservatively, when my laptimes went down a lot.)
Perhaps that explains our different impressions.

Tomorrow I'll try some Time Trial Drifting to see what you're talking about.

"The passengers of flight N-3-5-0-Z to Gravelpit Intl. may now board at gate G-T-5."

Vain

spanks: Arent you forgetting the fact that this particular sample of GT5 is intended to be balls-out difficult, rather than comfort blanket settings which will be there for all the people who want to find it fulfilling to drive with a controller.


Anyone who's been around these forums knows i dont give a shit what people say, and I FTR I have no problem labelling myself a GT5 fanboy, i feel no shame in that in the slightest. If they release a game, i'll buy it, and i'll enjoy it for various different aspects.

I still dont find it particularly realistic to how *i'd imagine* it should feel in a track car. Theres something fundamentally unhappy about the way the car reacts at times. Theres no sign/feel of where the slip angle is on the tyres, you have 3 options:
Power down and the grip is there and away we go
Power down and the grip isnt there and off we go
tip-toe round the corner and arrive at the destination a week later.

Theres no middle ground, in LFS you can counter-steer your way out of smaller mistakes and take little loss, GT5 Demo currently spins you round at least 180 degrees.

Putting a number of fast (to your ability) laps together in LFS isnt that hard, but in this demo it does feel like you've got to be very lucky to complete a pushing lap without the car/tyres giving out on you and your lap is over.


I dont buy into Ferrari Challenge's physics being all that great either, ditto for Supercar Challenge, it might be better, but FC/SC lets you pretty much throw a car into corners and come out the other side quite well.

FC is easier to drive fast lap after lap, compared to GT5D in its full on sim mode, but FC was very arcadey and GT5 will feel completely different in its arcade and lesser difficulty settings.


Im loving the actual demo, but at the same time pulling my hair out at how often the car steps out of control and the second it gives that indication its lost traction you can kiss goodbye to the lap, and thats infuriating. Is it realistic? Beats me, i only have other sims as a comparison to know, and i guess different tyres act differently in terms of what they do at different slip angles (slicks im sure are near enough 100% then suddenly 0%, road tyres i would expect to be more forgiving), but it seems GT5 demo has 100% or 0% nothing in between, and im not getting any indication in FFB of losing traction like i do in LFS.

Pre-order very much in place, been there since June 06, and aint going anywhere. Im suprised that with people like Kaz who's obviously got real track experience under his belt, and Lucas who's a GT player who's done a season of FIA GT4 thanks to GTAcademy, someone could point out something doesnt feel right if it doesnt feel right. Kaz doesnt strike me as the kind of person to settle for something because its the easy option. So im quite confused by things.

Quote from PaulC2K :

Kaz doesnt strike me as the kind of person to settle for something because its the easy option. So im quite confused by things.

Well you said it (if i understood you right), that you can't compare it with the real thing, and i'm sure all these people here that claim they driven the car on their limits on the track, are not so sure about that either. I mean, you think you pushed it to the limit, but you can give your car to some proffesional driver, and he would take 3, 4 seconds of your time, and you would be left scratching your head. I mean, we ARE pushing these cars in racing sims to absolute limits, cause we fear nothing in our chair. But do you honestly think you are really pushing your real car to the limit on a real track?
But i do agree, it 'feels' that it should have more freedom in tossing the car around the track..

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Umm, this one is, and if i recall, real cars are driven with stearing wheels and pedals.. so until you play it with a wheel, restrain yourself from comments. I can't believe people can play with controller, but it's more absurd when they start judging the game by playing it with a controller.

Not everyone has the money/time to invest in a wheel.

Some people want to just pick up and play.

Lol whatever guys sorry I don't like your new favorite game as much as you do.

Enjoy your super difficult most realistic ever balls to the wall difficult console sim.

I am so nice I am even refraining from trolling the shit out of you guys right now.

I will refrain from any more blasphemous comments against the gran turismo gods for fear of angering them any further DO NOT SMITE ME MY LORD!

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Umm, this one is, and if i recall, real cars are driven with stearing wheels and pedals.. so until you play it with a wheel, restrain yourself from comments. I can't believe people can play with controller, but it's more absurd when they start judging the game by playing it with a controller.

Someone is getting worried because his Uber awsome PS3 exclusive wipe the floor with forza 3 is being called crap.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Well you said it (if i understood you right), that you can't compare it with the real thing, and i'm sure all these people here that claim they driven the car on their limits on the track, are not so sure about that either. I mean, you think you pushed it to the limit, but you can give your car to some proffesional driver, and he would take 3, 4 seconds of your time, and you would be left scratching your head. I mean, we ARE pushing these cars in racing sims to absolute limits, cause we fear nothing in our chair. But do you honestly think you are really pushing your real car to the limit on a real track?
But i do agree, it 'feels' that it should have more freedom in tossing the car around the track..

Yes, it's very simple to push a car to its limits on a track (in corners that are safe in case you overdo it, there's no risk in trying). What is so hard about pushing a car to it's limits? Spinning out in a corner at 120km/h, compared to spinning out when a racing driver is doing the same at 124km/h, where's the difference? Of course if you drive with only 30km/h, you'll never reach the limits in 99.9% of corners on race tracks.

In a very simplified view: Driving a car to it's limits means to find the best line for a corner, then find the maximum speed for said corner and line. If you cross this limit, you'll notice, trust me. Driving within these limits as fast as physically possible (with Schumacher at the wheel) doesn't mean you'll be exploring/learning the limits of the car. To do this, you have to go past the limit. How do you think people find the limits of their cars otherwise?

It doesn't take a racing driver to drive a car to its limits on a track. People who can't drive or are scared might have a problem, but it's in no way rocket science or something you couldn't learn in half a day.

Quote from Luke.S :

Someone is getting worried because his Uber awsome PS3 exclusive wipe the floor with forza 3 is being called crap.

I didn't even intended to buy GT5, bought a PS3 for God of War 3 primarily, so just stfu.. When i see a good driving engine, i say it, simple as that.

Quote from jibber :

Yes, it's very simple to push a car to its limits on a track (in corners that are safe in case you overdo it, there's no risk in trying). What is so hard about pushing a car to it's limits? Spinning out in a corner at 120km/h, compared to spinning out when a racing driver is doing the same at 124km/h, where's the difference? Of course if you drive with only 30km/h, you'll never reach the limits in 99.9% of corners on race tracks.

In a very simplified view: Driving a car to it's limits means to find the best line for a corner, then find the maximum speed for said corner and line. If you cross this limit, you'll notice, trust me. Driving within these limits as fast as physically possible (with Schumacher at the wheel) doesn't mean you'll be exploring/learning the limits of the car. To do this, you have to go past the limit. How do you think people find the limits of their cars otherwise?

It doesn't take a racing driver to drive a car to its limits on a track. People who can't drive or are scared might have a problem, but it's in no way rocket science or something you couldn't learn in half a day.

Fair enough. I admit it, i never pushed a car to it's limits, never been with a car on a track. But you do admit that it feels awesome once your sticking to the 'race line', when it spins out i can't be the judge if it's realistic or not, but what irritates me is that people with controller are bashing it.. I know that not everyone has the money for a wheel, but they should just restrain themselves from stupid comments like that..

GT5 isn't "crap", however, it does irk me, the fact that PD ALWAYS fool thier audience into thinking that hard means realistic, some of the class statements I read on GTPlanet were.....

"The physics are great, it now feels like GTR2/GTL"!!!

On the topic of not being able to hold powerslides

"The 370Z isn't very good at drifting"!!!!

Its clear that a large portion of the people playing it over at GTplanet are either completely blinkered, have never driven a car, let alone a high performance car anywhere near the limit of grip, or just a little bit mental!!!

I am sure GT5 will be a good game, but there are better examples of realism available.

Cars in prolouge handle better once you can tune you setups when you beat the game. This trial feels like poo still.

Quote from jibber :

The physics are actually quite ok when you're racing. They feel a lot better than GT5P did. It's only when you start spinning and try to recover when you notice there's something terribly wrong (again, much like Rfactor or NFS Shift). That's where the game becomes unrealistic, other then that, i can see why people like it so much........ And that's exaclty where i see the problem. It shouldn't be that hard.

Yeah I agree with you for sure. With the gamepad it didn't seem that bad, I guess because the steering is assisted and if you get any amount of opposite lock on it will help you out. But trying the stock version with road tires with the G25... wow, not good :P Up to the limit it feels not bad... and if you get into a tiny slide it's ok. But if you step over the mark and get properly sideways it's a huge pain in the ass to recover. Even in the slowest 2nd gear corners where you think "oh I'll give it some gas to have a little sideways fun a low speed" it wants to spin on you instantly. A front engined rwd road car with road tires and decent torque is not all that hard to hold sideways in real life. And if you get out of line accidentally, correcting is not near impossible. But in this, the combination of questionable physics and FF that doesn't really let you know what's going on makes it a real challenge.

It feels a lot less like a dead fish than GT5P did, but I am finding it equally bad, just in different ways

And if you haven't tried it with a wheel, trust me it is quite different! After using it with the gamepad it definitely felt not bad.... but with a wheel it should feel easier to control at and beyond the limit, in my experience it felt worse.

As for real life experience... in the tightest 2nd gear corners on the Indy track, it's very similar speed to the fastest sweeper in pretty much every autox event I've driven. In most of the rwd cars I've driven, I've had some sideways fun in the 2nd gear sweeper in autox... 911 GT3, Corvette, 400whp 240SX, 350Z, turbo miata, etc etc... And none of them have been difficult to hold sideways through that. Even when the 911 stepped out accidentally once with race tires on, it wasn't too hard to gather it back up. In fact I've never spun a car in autox, and that's having gone over the limit many times in many cars. Yet in a similar speed turn with the 370Z, a poke of the throttle for some sideways fun ends in a spin 90% of the time.

Quote from Michael Denham :

911 GT3, Corvette, 400whp 240SX, 350Z, turbo miata, etc etc... And none of them have been difficult to hold sideways through that. Even when the 911 stepped out accidentally once with race tires on, it wasn't too hard to gather it back up. In fact I've never spun a car in autox, and that's having gone over the limit many times in many cars. Yet in a similar speed turn with the 370Z, a poke of the throttle for some sideways fun ends in a spin 90% of the time.

Bingo, exactly .

Anyway, all i know is that same techniques for a fast lap in LFS, work here too.. Make what you want from that..

And btw, here's quite an awesome drift from GT5p, in Nissan 350z, if you and i can't do it, doesn't mean it's not possible..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgPfqRG6PjM

Quote from Boris Lozac :

And btw, here's quite an awesome drift from GT5p, in Nissan 350z, if you and i can't do it, doesn't mean it's not possible..

We're not talking about GT5P... It's quite different. Holding a drift in GT5P isn't that hard, and there is also the 'drift' mode with different physics which makes it even easier. What the guy in the GT5P video is doing there is very easy indeed. Doing anything beyond the limit of grip in the GT5 demo is not.